Originally posted by KingD19
Well in fairness, the Superman Zod fought was not the same Superman from the Justice League. He was cleary much faster, stronger, and more ruthless after his resurrection. No way MoS Superman would be able to watch Flash running and chase him down when Faora was giving him problems with her speed.
Fair point. Steppenwolf still loses though.
Originally posted by KingD19
Well in fairness, the Superman Zod fought was not the same Superman from the Justice League. He was cleary much faster, stronger, and more ruthless after his resurrection. No way MoS Superman would be able to watch Flash running and chase him down when Faora was giving him problems with her speed.
The thing is superspeed (on that level) is activated when something is moving that fast already (like a catalyst). Look at Zod from the flash movie. His perceptions were activated to a much higher degree when flash triggered them in his run.
It's fair to say that Zod won't be JL Superman fast against Step but he would be significantly faster just going off Mos feats.
Originally posted by Psychotron
Based on what? The Flash showed that even no-name Kryptonians are fast enough to hit Flash.
Faora was easily dodging around MOS Superman's shots.
JL Superman was fast enough to almost catch Flash multiple times
A young Flash completely speedblitzed Faora, to the point where Faora stood like a statue while she was stabbed multiple times.
If that Faora was slightly faster than MOS Superman, then it stands to reason that JL Superman was quite faster than MOS Superman.
Originally posted by FrothByteThat's not how it works. It's called fiction inconsistency. If I researched hard enough I can give many examples in fiction where we arrive at contradiction in power levels.
Faora was easily dodging around MOS Superman's shots.
JL Superman was fast enough to almost catch Flash multiple times
A young Flash completely speedblitzed Faora, to the point where Faora stood like a statue while she was stabbed multiple times.If that Faora was slightly faster than MOS Superman, then it stands to reason that JL Superman was quite faster than MOS Superman.
With that said, I agree with you. MOS Superman was slower than JL Superman only because he never got that level of superspeed awakened in him (he definitely has the potential though).
JL Superman was just as fast as MOS UNTIL flash triggered a higher mode of superspeed in him. Now let Flash run around MOS Superman and you will see MOS higher speed get activated.
It's like Faora and the other Kryptonians have the ability to fly IF the discover it or it becomes awakened in them.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Faora was easily dodging around MOS Superman's shots.
JL Superman was fast enough to almost catch Flash multiple times
A young Flash completely speedblitzed Faora, to the point where Faora stood like a statue while she was stabbed multiple times.If that Faora was slightly faster than MOS Superman, then it stands to reason that JL Superman was quite faster than MOS Superman.
First of all, Faora has H2H training that Superman lacks. Second, Faora was dodging Superman only until Superman got pissed. Then she needed Nam-Ek's help.
Anyway, Flash couldn't defeat Zod even with Supergirl's help, so you can't call Zod slow.
Originally posted by Psychotron
First of all, Faora has H2H training that Superman lacks. Second, Faora was dodging Superman only until Superman got pissed. Then she needed Nam-Ek's help.Anyway, Flash couldn't defeat Zod even with Supergirl's help, so you can't call Zod slow.
This is incorrect. Faora was dodging Superman when Superman was trying strike against Faora. After that Superman resorted to grappling with Faora and Namek and that's what allowed Superman to land hits on Faora, since it's pretty hard to use superior speed to dodge someone when they're grappling you.
Even if you disagree with Faora being faster than Superman, you'd still agree that Superman wasn't faster than Faora yes? So there's still no explanation for JL Superman being able to almost keep up with Flash while Faora got speedblitzed other than concluding that Superman got a lot faster between MOS and JL.
As for Zod, I don't believe Flash was trying to defeat Zod rather than simply trying to keep Supergirl alive. I don't remember any scene where Flash directly attacked Zod. In comparison, Flash directly attacked Faora and completely blitzed her.
Originally posted by FrothByte
This is incorrect. Faora was dodging Superman when Superman was trying strike against Faora. After that Superman resorted to grappling with Faora and Namek and that's what allowed Superman to land hits on Faora, since it's pretty hard to use superior speed to dodge someone when they're grappling you.Even if you disagree with Faora being faster than Superman, you'd still agree that Superman wasn't faster than Faora yes? So there's still no explanation for JL Superman being able to almost keep up with Flash while Faora got speedblitzed other than concluding that Superman got a lot faster between MOS and JL.
As for Zod, I don't believe Flash was trying to defeat Zod rather than simply trying to keep Supergirl alive. I don't remember any scene where Flash directly attacked Zod. In comparison, Flash directly attacked Faora and completely blitzed her.
Lol how is it incorrect? He charged her directly when she gave her evolution speech and she was unable to dodge him. That was when Nam-Ek got involved. He also grabbed her and tried to fly away with her when she was saved by Nam-Ek again. There's just no proof that Faora is faster than Superman. She got some initial advantage due to her superior training, but that's it.
Flash wasn't trying to defeat Zod? Lol wtf kind of nonsense is this? What do you think Flash was doing in that fight? Why was he attacking all the other Kryptonians? Come on, you're not that stupid. He tried using his speed against Zod (with Supergirl's help) and got tagged.
Originally posted by Psychotron
Lol how is it incorrect? He charged her directly when she gave her evolution speech and she was unable to dodge him. That was when Nam-Ek got involved. He also grabbed her and tried to fly away with her when she was saved by Nam-Ek again. There's just no proof that Faora is faster than Superman. She got some initial advantage due to her superior training, but that's it.Flash wasn't trying to defeat Zod? Lol wtf kind of nonsense is this? What do you think Flash was doing in that fight? Why was he attacking all the other Kryptonians? Come on, you're not that stupid. He tried using his speed against Zod (with Supergirl's help) and got tagged.
Yes, Superman used his flight (which Faora conveniently doesn't have) to tackle and grapple her. From there, pretty much all of Superman's attacks that landed on Faora were done within a grappling context. Everytime he tried to strike her from a distance, Faora was able to dodge. It wasn't as simple as Superman simply getting "pissed".
In the end, you're still ignoring the elephant in the room. There's no proof that Superman is faster than Faora. Agreed?
As for Zod, please describe to me any scene in the movie where Flash directly attacked Zod. Go ahead, I'll wait.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Yes, Superman used his flight (which Faora conveniently doesn't have) to tackle and grapple her. From there, pretty much all of Superman's attacks that landed on Faora were done within a grappling context. Everytime he tried to strike her from a distance, Faora was able to dodge. It wasn't as simple as Superman simply getting "pissed".In the end, you're still ignoring the elephant in the room. There's no proof that Superman is faster than Faora. Agreed?
As for Zod, please describe to me any scene in the movie where Flash directly attacked Zod. Go ahead, I'll wait.
There's no proof that Superman's flight is any faster than his movement on land. In fact, he was mostly on foot when he kept up with Flash.
No, I don't agree. Superman connected with her more than once.
The very first time he tried to save Kara.
Originally posted by Psychotron
There's no proof that Superman's flight is any faster than his movement on land. In fact, he was mostly on foot when he kept up with Flash.No, I don't agree. Superman connected with her more than once.
The very first time he tried to save Kara.
I just rewatched the fight. The only time Superman actually hits Faora is when he tackled her. Every other attack he made that wasn't dodged were grappling moves.
That said, I see you're still dodging my main question so let me make it more clear: Are you claiming that Superman is faster than Faora?
As for Flash the very first time he tried to save Kara, you're talking about where he ran up a dust cloud to assist Kara? Because that's not Flash directly attacking Zod. I'm asking for an example where he directly attacked Zod like he did Faora.
Originally posted by FrothByte
This is incorrect. Faora was dodging Superman when Superman was trying strike against Faora. After that Superman resorted to grappling with Faora and Namek and that's what allowed Superman to land hits on Faora, since it's pretty hard to use superior speed to dodge someone when they're grappling you.Even if you disagree with Faora being faster than Superman, you'd still agree that Superman wasn't faster than Faora yes? So there's still no explanation for JL Superman being able to almost keep up with Flash while Faora got speedblitzed other than concluding that Superman got a lot faster between MOS and JL.
As for Zod, I don't believe Flash was trying to defeat Zod rather than simply trying to keep Supergirl alive. I don't remember any scene where Flash directly attacked Zod. In comparison, Flash directly attacked Faora and completely blitzed her.
You forgot that Superman blitzed Faora cleanly (no grappling involved). Zod tapped into his speed because of flash. He slowed time down (just like JL Superman did to match flash). You see flash move significantly slower in this state of mind. Zod is also able to move in relation to flash (not as much because flash is faster but much faster than before).
Also the kryptonians in general were very fast (because flashes were triggering their speed) as explained by Barry (he was getting tagged).
Anyway, the speed must be awakened. It already exists within them (kryptonians)
Originally posted by h1a8
You forgot that Superman blitzed Faora cleanly (no grappling involved). Zod tapped into his speed because of flash. He slowed time down (just like JL Superman did to match flash). You see flash move significantly slower in this state of mind. Zod is also able to move in relation to flash (not as much because flash is faster but much faster than before).Also the kryptonians in general were very fast (because flashes were triggering their speed) as explained by Barry (he was getting tagged).
Anyway, the speed must be awakened. It already exists within them (kryptonians)
When did Superman ever blitz Faora?
Young Barry only got tagged once by the random Kryptonians, when he first entered the battlefield. After he figured out they were faster than humans, the kryptonians were pretty much just statues to the Flashes.