Captain America vs Wonder Woman w/twist

Originally posted by h1a8
So PIS doesn't ever exist. It's not a rule. Good to know.

Also you claimed that she is enhanced. You have to prove such claims when requested. Otherwise you are trolling.

She was biochemically enhanced by the red room. Common knowledge, and there are scans. But the more persuasive and more relevant proof are her actual feats, which I have provided. She can react to the sound of a suppressed sniper round and move out of the way. Ergo, superhuman.

Burden is on you to prove otherwise.

Looks like she also just kicked Bloodscream and sent him flying. Cool.

Originally posted by Smurph
PIS is a rule, but feats aren't presumptively PIS. Burden is on you to establish that.

She was biochemically enhanced by the red room. Common knowledge, and there are scans. But the more persuasive and more relevant proof are her actual feats, which I have provided. She can react to the sound of a suppressed sniper round and move out of the way. Ergo, superhuman.

Burden is on you to prove otherwise.

Cassandra Cain does that and experts claim she isn't super human.

Who's up for testing that theory? 🤔

Originally posted by Smurph
PIS is a rule, but feats aren't presumptively PIS. Burden is on you to establish that.

She was biochemically enhanced by the red room. Common knowledge, and there are scans. But the more persuasive and more relevant proof are her actual feats, which I have provided. She can react to the sound of a suppressed sniper round and move out of the way. Ergo, superhuman.

Burden is on you to prove otherwise.

She was enhanced in such a way as to slow aging and increase healing, etc. Not to make her stronger, faster, etc. That's why I asked for proof (maybe something I missed)

If a human level character (no established superpowers by the comics or the company itself) has showings where less than 1% are well out of the range of human ability then those showings are PIS. Otherwise there is no such thing as PIS for humans. Black widow has hundreds and hundreds of appearances. But very few are gross outliers.

A consequence of no PIS is Batman will be almost as fast as light and capable of exerting and resisting over millions of tons of force.

Originally posted by cdtm
Cassandra Cain does that and experts claim she isn't super human.

Who's up for testing that theory?

Originally posted by Smurph
"experts"

In universe experts. You know the scene, they measured her with science.

Originally posted by h1a8

If a human level character (no established superpowers by the comics or the company itself) has showings where less than 1% are well out of the range of human ability then those showings are PIS. Otherwise there is no such thing as PIS for humans.

"Plot induced stupidity" was the writing that made the fight between Black Widow and Magik seem close. Magik could have ended her in a panel.

Black Widow's feats, on the other hand, are simply her feats.

Anyways, reported for trolling.

Originally posted by cdtm
In universe experts. You know the scene, they measured her with science.

Originally posted by h1a8
Expert's opinions hold more weight than non experts.
I'm an expert in fighting.

Originally posted by Smurph
Utter bullshit. Nothing in the forum rules limits Black Widow to a range of human ability.

"Plot induced stupidity" was the writing that made the fight between Black Widow and Magik seem close. Magik could have ended her in a panel.

Black Widow's feats, on the other hand, are simply her feats.

Anyways, reported for trolling.

So you agree that Batman is at least 1/3 the speed of light, can exert forces far above 1000 tons.
After all his feats are his feats.

I gave a scenario where less than1% of the time a human character operates well outside of human range. So frequency AND having no established powers was my argument.

Otherwise we can use a human character's one-off feats to establish power level (for example, Batman.

If rare outlier feats FOR HUMAN CHARACTERS WITH NO ESTABLISHED SUPERPOWERS are allowed to establish power levels then I can certainly prove that Batman is at least 1/3 the speed of light and can exert and resist more than billions of tons of force.

You can't have it both ways.

Anyway Cap wins as he has superpowers and Diana doesn't.
If Cap was a normal human (same size and weight as his superpowered version and with same skill knowledge) with no enhanced abilities then this would be a good fight.

Originally posted by h1a8
So you agree that Batman is at least 1/3 the speed of light, can exert forces far above 1000 tons.
After all his feats are his feats.

I gave a scenario where less than1% of the time a human character operates well outside of human range. So frequency AND having no established powers was my argument.

Otherwise we can use a human character's one-off feats to establish power level (for example, Batman.

If rare outlier feats FOR HUMAN CHARACTERS WITH NO ESTABLISHED SUPERPOWERS are allowed to establish power levels then I can certainly prove that Batman is at least 1/3 the speed of light and can exert and resist more than billions of tons of force.

You can't have it both ways.

While she's outrunning and tackling Taskmaster.

Originally posted by Smurph
"But the Black Widow is different. She's the end project of Department X, the Red Room. A half-century long project to build a [b]superhuman assassin capable of killing Captain America. They built her strong. They built her fast."

While she's outrunning and tackling Taskmaster. [/B]

Thank you. That's all I asked.
I only knew for her to age slowly and have an accelerated healing factor.

Are we saying she’s a normal person or using her status as a peak Amazon?
Because that’s wildly different.

Also, she’s a phenomenal fighter but she’s flat out not going to have the feats required to match most any street tier in this category if she’s meant to be normal human by feats even if she could wipe the floor with most of them. The feats just don’t exist.

Originally posted by Juntai
Are we saying she’s a normal person or using her status as a peak Amazon?
Because that’s wildly different.

Also, she’s a phenomenal fighter but she’s flat out not going to have the feats required to match most any street tier in this category if she’s meant to be normal human by feats even if she could wipe the floor with most of them. The feats just don’t exist.

That's a good question, whether she still a peak Amazon here.
That makes things more interesting.

Originally posted by Juntai
Are we saying she’s a normal person or using her status as a peak Amazon?
Because that’s wildly different.

Also, she’s a phenomenal fighter but she’s flat out not going to have the feats required to match most any street tier in this category if she’s meant to be normal human by feats even if she could wipe the floor with most of them. The feats just don’t exist.

She's no Val Armorr.

Of course neither is Cap.

Originally posted by Juntai
Are we saying she’s a normal person or using her status as a peak Amazon?
Because that’s wildly different.

Also, she’s a phenomenal fighter but she’s flat out not going to have the feats required to match most any street tier in this category if she’s meant to be normal human by feats even if she could wipe the floor with most of them. The feats just don’t exist.

Hercules has skill feats despite being very superhuman. Not enough to say that he could beat Cap or Batman in an even fight, but definitely enough to keep up with some street levelers.

Originally posted by Smurph
The feats don't need to show her at human levels. They just need to establish skill.

Hercules has skill feats despite being very superhuman. Not enough to say that he could beat Cap or Batman in an even fight, but definitely enough to keep up with some street levelers.

He kept up with Carman Elektra, who could walk all over Batman or Cap (If not for the typical jobbing)

Originally posted by cdtm
He kept up with Carman Elektra, who could walk all over Batman or Cap (If not for the typical jobbing)

No he can't in a forum situation. Elektra should stomp powerless Hercules.
Characters not fighting to the best of their ability in a comic holds little water.
Remember speed and reactions plays a bigger factor than skill.
Even the lowest professionally trained fighter has the know how to block, dodge or parry any h2h attack. Strikes are landed due to lack of reactions or countering (catching an opponent off guard).

Diana is a great fighter, but if you took her strength away, many of the skill feats that she can produce would be greatly diminished. Acrobatics for example would likely be used far less, as would several other abilities that she has.