Originally posted by zopzophow would kuurth cope with an attack like this iyo?
I mean, even Magneto has affected Mjolnir but he was powerless vs FP Kuurth's hammer and needed to be saved by Kitty.IMHO, Kuurth will pound away on her forcefields and he'll eventually break through or she'll exhaust herself long before he does leaving her open to getting KO/killed.
she also shielded from a mad celestials attack, which is something even franklin was pressed to do.
Originally posted by zopzop
I mean, even Magneto has affected Mjolnir but he was powerless vs FP Kuurth's hammer and needed to be saved by Kitty.IMHO, Kuurth will pound away on her forcefields and he'll eventually break through or she'll exhaust herself long before he does leaving her open to getting KO/killed.
She held a forcefield up over an entire city for a day:
An entire planet was shielded and hidden from the Sentry:
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/scale_super/11139/111391579/7408394-rco011_1576677178.jpg
Was able to hide a Moon sized area:
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11139/111391579/7225815-img_20200129_182806.jpg
And casually made thousands of cubic miles invisible, for sixteen hours straight, for three consecutive days:
So I guess it all depends what we in the forum define as immobilisation. If Spidey buries the Juggernaut in cement and he takes days to free himself, is that a win for Spidey?
If someone buries Thor under an avalanche, under tons of rocks, and he is unable to get out, how long does his opponent stand around for? A 10-count? A minute? An hour? Two? Five?
If Sue can casually, whilst playing I Spy etc maintain forcefields up for 16 hours a day over thousands of cubic miles, a Kuurth-sized forcefield for...10 minutes, say, would be easy.
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXXTbf, the specific type of energy that Sue's abilities derive from have previously been described as, essentially, the equivalent of Celestial Kryptonite.
how would kuurth cope with an attack like this iyo?
Dunno if that 'origin' has been retconned in more recent times(?), but if some random thug shot Superman with a k-nite bullet, I certainly wouldn't consider it a high feat for the thug. /shrug
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXXNah. Even kid Franklin's 'shields' did just fine against an attack from one of the Mad Celestials, when he was actually trying:
she also shielded from a mad celestials attack, which is something even franklin was pressed to do.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85True, but it is all dependent on the amount of direct/localized stress being placed on her shielding at any given time... Like when Sue mentioned that not even her FF could endure repeated strikes from Mjolnir:
She held a forcefield up over an entire city for a day:An entire planet was shielded and hidden from the Sentry:
Was able to hide a Moon sized area:
And casually made thousands of cubic miles invisible, for sixteen hours straight, for three consecutive days:
So Kuurth likely would break through her shields. How long it would take, however, is a different discussion.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85👆
So I guess it all depends what we in the forum define as immobilisation. If Spidey buries the Juggernaut in cement and he takes days to free himself, is that a win for Spidey?If someone buries Thor under an avalanche, under tons of rocks, and he is unable to get out, how long does his opponent stand around for? A 10-count? A minute? An hour? Two? Five?
If Sue can casually, whilst playing I Spy etc maintain forcefields up for 16 hours a day over thousands of cubic miles, a Kuurth-sized forcefield for...10 minutes, say, would be easy.
That is something that probably should be better-defined in the rules. I'm fully open to opinions here.
You assume she makes a dome that is of a fixed shape. She can make an amorphous blobby one that takes the sting out of his swings:
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11139/111391579/8233486-rco012_1473741528.jpg
Originally posted by h1a8
I would say Kuurth hammer can break the shield instantly.
Why?
Magneto couldn't stop the hammer.
Is Sue's power significantly beyond Magneto power?
She is better off becoming invisible and being evasive while trying to put him down.
As for direct comparisons to Magneto:
The group, btw, is: Professor X, Storm, Human Torch, Iceman, Thing, Bishop, Pyro, Mister Fantastic, Kitty Pryde and a weakened Franklin Richards .
And she saves Magneto in another issue:
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
X-men Vol 3 #19.Later on, Sue contains Doom's magic in a bubble (https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11139/111391579/8233499-rco019.jpg), but not before blocking the big bad (who is able to easily capture Magneto):
No shade on Magneto, though. That baddie is powered by an entire planet:
@Galan: plus, whilst Sue says that, she was easily blocking Allfather bloodlusted Thor alongside other characters:
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11139/111391579/8235344-rco012_1628085920.jpg
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Oh, I'm not saying that Kuurth would immediately be able to break through Sue's shielding(she's got the feats to suggest that much.) I just think he would ultimately be able to do so.
@Galan: plus, whilst Sue says that, she was easily blocking Allfather bloodlusted Thor alongside other characters:
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11139/111391579/8235344-rco012_1628085920.jpg
So the question becomes: how long does Kuurth have to remain trapped/contained in order to constitute a forum win via immobilization?
ie. When Firestorm locked Orion in a titanium cube, it technically immobilized him for a time, but he ultimately broke out a bit later. So I wouldn't view that as an immobilization win, for example... But if Sue's shields were able to trap Kuurth for a prolonged period for time(whatever arbitrary figure that might be), then it probably could be viewed as an immobilization win.
Originally posted by Galan007
Oh, I'm not saying that Kuurth would immediately be able to break through Sue's shielding(she's got the feats to suggest that much.) I just think he would ultimately be able to do so.So the question becomes: how long does Kuurth have to remain trapped/contained in order to constitute a forum win via immobilization?
ie. When Firestorm locked Orion in a titanium cube, it technically immobilized him for a time, but he ultimately broke out a bit later. So I wouldn't view that as an immobilization win, for example... But if Sue's shields were able to trap Kuurth for a prolonged period for time(whatever arbitrary figure that might be), then it probably could be viewed as an immobilization win.
Oh yeah, missed that part.
So a 10 count like in boxing feels waaay too short - but at the same time, 10 minutes seems too long?
If Hydro-Man (say) got Spidey in a bubble of water, he'll drown in what - 3, 4 minutes? So a 5 minute count feels right as a starting point. Someone like Bats or Spidey could be trapped and empty their entire arsenal trying to get out, for example, and 5 minutes is long enough for them to pull something out of the hat.
i don't think i'd ever consider immobilized as a forum win--unless it was essentially indefinitely. you used juggs and spidey. i wouldn't call that a forum win. he was still moving forward the whole time. i don't think she could stop him at all--he'd continue moving forward imo so he would never truly be immobilized but that's neither here nor there. the idea of immobilization has always been a bit of a loophole. if spidey immobilizes logan with webs for an hour did he win the fight? if a specific forum rule says so, that's fine, but if they stayed in the ring logan would get out and the fight continues so i wouldn't personally count that as a forum win.
i look at it like bfr--bfr works because one opponent is completely taken out of the fight. if an immobilized person wins and is out of the fight for good--OR if the person who immobilized the opponent can then kill the immobilized opponent THEN the immobilization should count as a win. like if kraven hit spidey with a poison that paralyzed him. the paralyzation wouldn't be a win imo--the fact that once paralyzed kraven would chop his head off is what would make it a win. imo.
in this case sue would need to concentrate heavily to immobilize him. kuurth would be fighting the whole time and not be truly immobilized, and its a forgone conclusion he'd break out and kill her. don't see how that, in any way at all, could be considered a win for her.
Originally posted by leonidas
i don't think i'd ever consider immobilized as a forum win--unless it was essentially indefinitely. you used juggs and spidey. i wouldn't call that a forum win. he was still moving forward the whole time. i don't think she could stop him at all--he'd continue moving forward imo so he would never truly be immobilized but that's neither here nor there. the idea of immobilization has always been a bit of a loophole. if spidey immobilizes logan with webs for an hour did he win the fight? if a specific forum rule says so, that's fine, but if they stayed in the ring logan would get out and the fight continues so i wouldn't personally count that as a forum win.i look at it like bfr--bfr works because one opponent is completely taken out of the fight. if an immobilized person wins and is out of the fight for good--OR if the person who immobilized the opponent can then kill the immobilized opponent THEN the immobilization should count as a win. like if kraven hit spidey with a poison that paralyzed him. the paralyzation wouldn't be a win imo--the fact that once paralyzed kraven would chop his head off is what would make it a win. imo.
in this case sue would need to concentrate heavily to immobilize him. kuurth would be fighting the whole time and not be truly immobilized, and its a forgone conclusion he'd break out and kill her. don't see how that, in any way at all, could be considered a win for her.
Whereas I would see it as a forum win for Spidey..without a timeout rule, Mr Immortal/Deadpool/Wolverine/Lobo would win against someone like say, GL, whose ring would run out of charge. Hal could pin Mr Immortal under a construct, but eventually it runs out....and Mr Immortal is right back in the fight.
immortal is a different case. he would be COMPLETELY immobile and unable to defend or continue acting. same with pool or logan. they could all be decapitated--THAT would count as a forum win. juggs never stopped moving in the cement. he was never immobilized. like kurrth would never be immobilized. not completely. I see the two situations as completely different. just because someone can heal doesn't mean killing them the first time doesn't count as a win. it's the same as the paralysis I mentioned above.
But it's the same as Logan all webbed up - he can't attack or defend. Spidey could come over and read an entire book of slam poetry to him, and he'd have to lie there and take it
GL Vs Logan - Hal could hold Wolverine under a cube construct, and do whatever he liked for as long as the ring held its charge. He could walk slowly over, get a pen out and write his entire life story on Logan's face ('Daddy issues. Cocky Pilot. Greatest GL'😉. Yet as soon as the cube is lifted, Logan will jump to his feet and be back in the fight, even if it took days for the ring charge to deplete. I wouldn't say Logan won that. Hal would have.
Or say, Brit. Hulk could just.....hold him down with one hand. He's got a normal human level of strength, so will never be able to do anything. I wouldn't say he's 'won', quite the opposite (I'm not talking about killing, and never said so).
Killing isn't the only way to win
a webbed Logan is incapacitated and that would count as a win to me ONLY IF someone could prove Spidey was then able to beat a prone Logan into unconsciousness. if not, Spidey would need to win another way. can't see why simply webbing him would be enough to count as a win. if that were true, any Logan/Spidey thread should be closed as spite. don't really see that happening...
gl could kill logan--at least once--so incapacitation there is equivalent to a killing blow.
brit--IF he was able to withstand hulk's continually mounting strength it would be a stalemate if bfr is eliminated. or hulk holds his head and suffocates him--if that would cause brit to pass out. hulk could barely hug him or stomp him and hold him but he still didn't ko/kill.bfr him so it's a stalemate to me.
you're right--there are other ways to win--ko or bfr. not sure what advantage a time limit would have in these forum situations where even pis is off. sue holding someone in a bubble for an hour but the person inside is getting stronger and she's getting weaker means she should win that fight when it's a foregone conclusion she will lose it? in a forum situations where we're trying to see who would ACTUALLY win a match? doesn't make sense to me.
immobilization that leads to an inevitable incapacitation (via kill, ko or bfr) is the only kind of immobilization that should count as a win imo. :/
Well...yes, spamming his web cartridges to trap Logan is a win for Spidey. Same as Batman using his 15-ton-breaking-strength grappling line to wrap someone up, or encasing someone in foam, is a win for Batman.
I mean, is it any different from Herc doing this?
Originally posted by leonidas
In a city its possible for herc to bfr logan, or just open up a crack in the earth and seal him in it for a win. /shrug
Originally posted by leonidas
a webbed Logan is incapacitated and that would count as a win to me ONLY IF someone could prove Spidey was then able to beat a prone Logan into unconsciousness. if not, Spidey would need to win another way. can't see why simply webbing him would be enough to count as a win. if that were true, any Logan/Spidey thread should be closed as spite. don't really see that happening...
Logan breaks free out of the webbing pretty fast, it doesn't hold him.
Even back when Parker was protecting the serial killer kid, refused to listen to Logan and webbed him up when he had his claws sheathed, this happened:
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well...yes, spamming his web cartridges to trap Logan is a win for Spidey. Same as Batman using his 15-ton-breaking-strength grappling line to wrap someone up, or encasing someone in foam, is a win for Batman.I mean, is it any different from Herc doing this?
Wow. You really had that 2017 post ready in case Leo returned? 😂
Anyway, I always assumed the rules regarding such incapacitation were the same ones as with BFR --- if the character can't break free in a "reasonable time" and under his own power, it's a loss for him.
Of course, the debatable part would be what exactly we understand by "reasonable time".
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Wow. You really had that 2017 post ready in case Leo returned? 😂Anyway, I always assumed the rules regarding such incapacitation were the same ones as with BFR --- if the character can't break free in a "reasonable time" and under his own power, it's a loss for him.
Of course, the debatable part would be what exactly we understand by "reasonable time".
👆
If the Blob sat on Logan and just.....sat there, I would class it as a win for Blob, even if he doesn't kill/KO Logan. If Peter just spammed all his web cartridges at Logan and basically filled the arena with web, then sat back and played with his micro peen, I would class that as a win for Peter.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well...yes, spamming his web cartridges to trap Logan is a win for Spidey. Same as Batman using his 15-ton-breaking-strength grappling line to wrap someone up, or encasing someone in foam, is a win for Batman.I mean, is it any different from Herc doing this?
you should get checked out lol
but in that case Logan would be indefinitely incapacitated--meaning he could NEVER get free. he'd be forever incapable of breaking free or healing his way out so yes, again, it would/should count as a win.
reasonable time makes no real difference. if sue holds him for an hour but her concentration is breaking and he's getting stronger and WILL WIN (as everyone knows) then what possible advantage is there in arbitrarily declaring she wins? 😂 I mean take it if you want. I just don't see the point when the whole point of these forum fights is removing pis AND seeing who'd actually win.
Originally posted by leonidas
you should get checked out lolbut in that case Logan would be indefinitely incapacitated--meaning he could NEVER get free. he'd be forever incapable of breaking free or healing his way out so yes, again, it would/should count as a win.
reasonable time makes no real difference. if sue holds him for an hour but her concentration is breaking and he's getting stronger and WILL WIN (as everyone knows) then what possible advantage is there in arbitrarily declaring she wins? 😂 I mean take it if you want. I just don't see the point when the whole point of these forum fights is removing pis AND seeing who'd actually win.
Then I guess it then becomes...a question of time. 10 minutes? An hour? 2?
Let's go to 2021:
Originally posted by leonidas
the webbing is too big an edge. i thought maybe cage could rip it, but it he can't petey can immobilize most of them quickly i think. weirdly, danny is the toughest one. i wonder if he could ramp up the fist to get through the webs...?
And no, I don't have these saved, lol. I just use the search function.
Originally posted by leonidasbut in that case Logan would be indefinitely incapacitated--meaning he could NEVER get free. he'd be forever incapable of breaking free or healing his way out so yes, again, it would/should count as a win.
You're assuming Logan wouldn't just dig his way out of that. He's done it before.
Which, incidentally, would be far less problematic than Herc performing such a feat as if he had tactile telekinesis or Looney Tunes force backing him up.
