Originally posted by h1a8
I would say Kuurth hammer can break the shield instantly.
Why?
Magneto couldn't stop the hammer.
Is Sue's power significantly beyond Magneto power?
She is better off becoming invisible and being evasive while trying to put him down.
Originally posted by Galan007Like h1a8 says, I would. He had both Cyttorak's & Serpent's power.
Oh, I'm not saying that Kuurth would immediately be able to break through Sue's shielding(she's got the feats to suggest that much.) I just think he would ultimately be able to do so.So the question becomes: how long does Kuurth have to remain trapped/contained in order to constitute a forum win via immobilization?
If the notion of him instantly shattering Sue's forcefields would offend her upper capabilities, then maybe he just simply bypasses them to preserve the notion of unstoppability. Similar to how he simply bypassed teleportation into the Sun by simply walking forward anyway.
It took a godblast to stop classic Juggernaut. If we give Sue the benefit of her uppermost capabilities/feats, then we have to do the same for classic Juggernaut too... and, by extension, Kuurth.
Originally posted by ODG
Like h1a8 says, I would. He had both Cyttorak's & Serpent's power.If the notion of him instantly shattering Sue's forcefields would offend her upper capabilities, then maybe he just simply bypasses them to preserve the notion of unstoppability. Similar to how he simply bypassed teleportation into the Sun by simply walking forward anyway.
It took a godblast to stop classic Juggernaut. If we give Sue the benefit of her uppermost capabilities/feats, then we have to do the same for classic Juggernaut too... and, by extension, Kuurth.
👆
^ Sharing feats??? I don't understand.
Kuurth is Cain Marko. He was utilizing Cyttorak's full blessing/power as revealed during Illyana/Piotr's conversation with Cyttorak in the Crimson Cosmos. Marko was just further amped with the Serpent's power also.
So it's not sharing feats between different characters. It's just adding more power to the same character???
Ah my bad - I meant to say we don't stack powers (but I have no idea why I typed what I typed - I was probably in my cups).
By that I mean, we don't just...take the highs of classic Odin's power level, and add the highs of Thor's, to get Allfather Thor's striking power.
I mean we could, and I can post Sue blocking Allfather Thor's bloodlusted strikes.....
Originally posted by DarkSaint85I don't think anyone was stacking highs, I could be wrong though.
Ah my bad - I meant to say we don't stack powers (but I have no idea why I typed what I typed - I was probably in my cups).By that I mean, we don't just...take the highs of classic Odin's power level, and add the highs of Thor's, to get Allfather Thor's striking power.
I mean we could, and I can post Sue blocking Allfather Thor's bloodlusted strikes.....
ODG was using a single feat by a full powered Juggs (a Godblast barely being able to stop Juggs).
I stated that Mags could not even stop Kuurths hammer as it had the same unstoppable enchantment on it. I don't believe Sue shield integrity is significantly beyond Magnetos power.
Sue can put up a decent fight. But she has to stay invisible and become evasive (use movement) while attacking Kuurth. Just standing there and trying to stop the hammer from hitting her might be suicide
Originally posted by h1a8
I don't think anyone was stacking highs, I could be wrong though.ODG was using a single feat by a full powered Juggs (a Godblast barely being able to stop Juggs).
I stated that Mags could not even stop Kuurths hammer as it had the same unstoppable enchantment on it. I don't believe Sue shield integrity is significantly beyond Magnetos power.
Sue can put up a decent fight. But she has to stay invisible and become evasive (use movement) while attacking Kuurth. Just standing there and trying to stop the hammer from hitting her might be suicide
You saw my other scans showing her blocking the Ultimate Nullifier (which in the same comic erased a universe)?
You saw my scan showing her blocking the TVA's reality warping wave (which was erasing realities)?
You saw my scan showing her blocking Merged Sentry and the entire Cancerverse with a planet sized shield?
You saw my scan with her blocking Cormorant, who Franklin had to burn his powers out fighting and who handily defeated Squirrel Girl?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Well Kuurth achieved certain measurable feats that classic Juggernaut has failed:
Ah my bad - I meant to say we don't stack powers (but I have no idea why I typed what I typed - I was probably in my cups).By that I mean, we don't just...take the highs of classic Odin's power level, and add the highs of Thor's, to get Allfather Thor's striking power.
I mean we could, and I can post Sue blocking Allfather Thor's bloodlusted strikes.....
1) Classic Juggernaut has had his powers absorbed by classic Rogue twice. When a more seasoned Rogue tried to absorb Kuurth's power, Kuurth simply no-sold her and Rogue was left catatonic.
2) Classic Juggernaut generally needs footing on solid ground to advance. Indeed he was left helpless when lifted into the air by Skaar. Kuurth casually walks forward over canyons on thin air.
3) Classic Juggernaut is famously susceptible to telepathy when deprived of his helmet. When Kuurth's helmet came off, he no-sold a Cerebro-amped Emma Frost who was left completely mindphucked.
4) Related to above, classic Juggernaut has had his helmet torn off by your standard X-Men team. Kuurth only had his helmet torn off by Iceman lowering its temperature to absolute zero, Colossus striking it, Magneto warping it and then Hope going all-out to the point where she fainted afterwards. And, remember, all that effort ended up being pointless.
5) Classic Juggernaut has been teleported several times. When Pixie tried to teleport Kuurth to the bottom of the sea, or high orbit, or into the Sun, Kuurth simply no-sold actual teleportation and kept walking forward.
In the face of all this, why exactly is the notion of Kuurth being slowly blown away by a godblast equally as well (if not better) than classic Juggernaut was... that farfetched?
Bottom-line is, Kuurth was an amped classic Juggernaut. And if you want to give Sue Richards full credit for all of her greatest feats, you ought to do the same for classic Juggernaut... and by extension, Kuurth. If you want to limit Kuurth's upper capabilities arbitrarily to some sort of average??? Ok, sure... then you must also do the same for Sue. It's only fair.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You saw my other scans showing her blocking the Ultimate Nullifier (which in the same comic erased a universe)?
You saw my scan showing her blocking the TVA's reality warping wave (which was erasing realities)?
You saw my scan showing her blocking Merged Sentry and the entire Cancerverse with a planet sized shield?
You saw my scan with her blocking Cormorant, who Franklin had to burn his powers out fighting and who handily defeated Squirrel Girl?
What does that have to do with your comment about stacking feats or "sharing feats"?
And no I didn't see your scans (you didn't post them), and they are anyway irrelevant to the statement "sharing feats" that supposedly someone else is doing.
Now wouldn't the feats you gave for Sue do exactly what you are arguing against? You assume high end feats for her and not for an amped version of a character? Proof of Bias.
To address your feats:
Energy projection does not correlate to blunt force.
There are materials (and energy) that can easily stop lasers and other energy projection but utterly fail against bullets, sledge hammers, etc.
That covers your UN, TVA warping wave, and Cormorant arguments.
Now about the relevant blunt force feat:
The size of the shield (Merged Sentry example) is irrelevant. It's all about the strength of the shield. Average Merged Sentry's punch isn't more powerful than Kuurth's unstoppable enchantment. And fodder striking the shield one at a time in different places is not the same as a concentrated attack (which breaks shields more easily).
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Show me the screenshots of h1 ever relying on on-panel evidence instead of his autistic imagination 😂
Show me where Stilt knows anything about comics.
Show me where Stilt understands that no scans (although irrelevant) were posted of DS claims. He stated feats without posting them.
Originally posted by h1a8you missed my point. Which was that she's more powerful than Mags
What does that have to do with your comment about stacking feats or "sharing feats"?
And no I didn't see your scans (you didn't post them), and they are anyway irrelevant to the statement "sharing feats" that supposedly someone else is doing.
Now wouldn't the feats you gave for Sue do exactly what you are arguing against? You assume high end feats for her and not for an amped version of a character? Proof of Bias.To address your feats:
Energy projection does not correlate to blunt force.
There are materials (and energy) that can easily stop lasers and other energy projection but utterly fail against bullets, sledge hammers, etc.
That covers your UN, TVA warping wave, and Cormorant arguments.Now about the relevant blunt force feat:
The size of the shield (Merged Sentry example) is irrelevant. It's all about the strength of the shield. Average Merged Sentry's punch isn't more powerful than Kuurth's unstoppable enchantment. And fodder striking the shield one at a time in different places is not the same as a concentrated attack (which breaks shields more easily).
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
you missed my point. Which was that she's more powerful than Mags
That part I assumed from you mentioning certain feats that she did (you stated you post scans of them, which I did see lol, because you didn't post the scans). Magneto is damn near omnipotent when controlling metal. He can manipulate adamantium with ease. He couldn't do anything to Kuurth's hammer.
But I'm confused about the
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I don't think we can share/stack feats, but that's just me......
How does that play into this?
And I'm not saying Kuurth stomps her. My point is that her Shields WILL NOT hold up to a hammer throw or swing. She can contend in this fight by staying evasive (flying around and maneuvering) and by being undetected (invisible). That gives her all the time to try to figure out how to put Kuurth down (if it's possible).
I like Sue and definitely want her to win. But I simply can't lie to myself into thinking that she can stop the hammer from moving forward (or him)
Originally posted by h1a8
That part I assumed from you mentioning certain feats that she did (you stated you post scans of them, which I did see lol, because you didn't post the scans). Magneto is damn near omnipotent when controlling metal. He can manipulate adamantium with ease. He couldn't do anything to Kuurth's hammer.But I'm confused about the
How does that play into this?
And I'm not saying Kuurth stomps her. My point is that her Shields WILL NOT hold up to a hammer throw or swing. She can contend in this fight by staying evasive (flying around and maneuvering) and by being undetected (invisible). That gives her all the time to try to figure out how to put Kuurth down (if it's possible).
I like Sue and definitely want her to win. But I simply can't lie to myself into thinking that she can stop the hammer from moving forward (or him)
With regards to the first, I posted them in other threads (hence me asking if you had seen them). I rate blocked reality warping and ultimate nullification as being higher than Mags.
My statement about stacking was that comic writers don't take levels like that into account, like we do. We say well, Kuurth has the powers of X, and Y, so X+Y = Z.....but that doesn't play out in comics. Otherwise, I can say well Thor has these powers, Odin has those powers, add them together and Sue still blocked All father Thor's hammer strikes, even when he was bloodlusted.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
With regards to the first, I posted them in other threads (hence me asking if you had seen them). I rate blocked reality warping and ultimate nullification as being higher than Mags.My statement about stacking was that comic writers don't take levels like that into account, like we do. We say well, Kuurth has the powers of X, and Y, so X+Y = Z.....but that doesn't play out in comics. Otherwise, I can say well Thor has these powers, Odin has those powers, add them together and Sue still blocked All father Thor's hammer strikes, even when he was bloodlusted.
So you believe that Kuurth wasn't more powerful than classic Juggs alone?
Blocking energy beams can not always correlate to blocking blunt forces.
Unless the said beam can be proven to have X quantifiable push force behind it. Some energy just burns, some do other stuff. For example, Withstanding burning (for example lasers) doesn't mean one can withstand being pushed.
That is just my take anyway.