Superman vs Cyclops - twist

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
How about Superman's showing against Superboy Prime at the end of Infinite Crisis.
Not the fight with Prime any special, but the fact he can withstand the falling from a star to a planet when he was depowered(or powerless?) after flying through a red sun is something I think pretty insane when it comes to durability

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
And recently, when a villain stole Superman's powers, he can maneuver enough to tank that villain's punches without any permanent damage
That's the recent example I now can think of that similar to Carol's showing, there are probably more out there
https://ibb.co/J73GVvh
https://ibb.co/0CwHCqh
https://ibb.co/cL7fGwp
https://ibb.co/8P9MmWB
https://ibb.co/8z2b2dB
https://ibb.co/4dpNH93
https://ibb.co/LQyJ0XR
https://ibb.co/bdjC6Mr

Powerless he also took hits from Earth-Man(had the powers of the entire Legion line up, including Timber Wolf, Night Girl arguably, Blok, and arguably Ultra Boy's strength all stacked) and then re-entry heat unprotected.

Originally posted by Smurph
So Superman > Batman in skill?

Is that the conclusion we're to draw?

Originally posted by Delta1938
But we're not talking all 3 being random alternate universe versions. One of them was Owlman.

As for other examples, the Kobra fight you mentioned, Kobra did beat Batman. He ended it with tech, but was winning the fight to begin with.

Two fights with Black Adam that he did fine against, one Adam was more powerful than Captain Marvel by writer intent. And Adam had it retconned to be skilled, as you know, powerless he beat Batman.

Does fine against Orion, an actual war god.

Fights Zod fine, when a powerless Zod beat Brainiac through pure skill. Yes, Brainiac starts losing his powers when he's outside his ship, but it took him weeks outside it to.....still be superhuman, and when out for I presume a similar amount of time against Zod, still had the strength advantage against Superboy and Krypto simultaneously.

Yeah, I'm just saying if Carv (as an example) used someone beating Owlman as proof someone would beat Batman, we'd all crucify him, and rightly so.....

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
And recently, when a villain stole Superman's powers, he can maneuver enough to tank that villain's punches without any permanent damage
That's the recent example I now can think of that similar to Carol's showing, there are probably more out there
https://ibb.co/J73GVvh
https://ibb.co/0CwHCqh
https://ibb.co/cL7fGwp
https://ibb.co/8P9MmWB
https://ibb.co/8z2b2dB
https://ibb.co/4dpNH93
https://ibb.co/LQyJ0XR
https://ibb.co/bdjC6Mr

He still had powers here. Not fully powered but still...

Originally posted by carver9
He still had powers here. Not fully powered but still...

https://www.dc.com/comics/action-comics-2016/action-comics-1058

Superman versus Clark Kent! When the mysterious young Norah Stone drains Superman’s strength and unleashes an impostor tyrant Superman on Metropolis in his place, a powerless Clark Kent is forced to face the monster alone.

You do know that makes Clark look pretty bad if true. He had full access to Clark abilities, including his strength and he was going all out. I think we need to stick with Clark having his powers. Especially since he was able to roll with the punches on a Supes that had Clark speed, strength, super hearing and heat vision. Im trying to help you.

Originally posted by carver9
You do know that makes Clark look pretty bad if true. He had full access to Clark abilities, including his strength and he was going all out. I think we need to stick with Clark having his powers. Especially since he was able to roll with the punches on a Supes that had Clark speed, strength, super hearing and heat vision. Im trying to help you.

Edit:
Also, remember Karate Kid redirects Mon-El to another solar system?

Originally posted by Astner
Martial arts in DC Comics has always been kind of bonkers. Karate Kid ****ed up a possessed Mon-El who's basically as powerful as a Kryptonian. This, again, without having any kind of superpowers whatsoever.

- Legion of Superheroes #111

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
He has Superman's abilities, but not his skills(which the thread is asking about), as the comic depicts.
And the skill can make big differences.
As once Superman notes when fights Xa-Du(who casually beats WW around in her own comic), their powers may be evenly matched, but not skills
https://ibb.co/zZ8d22F
https://ibb.co/tXjdk1q
https://ibb.co/5vMBLwz
https://ibb.co/3Wd3RC3
https://ibb.co/z8p0qNd

Edit:
Also, remember Karate Kid redirects Mon-El to another solar system?

Even of he's using 70% of Superman's power, it's still a terrible showing. A glancing blow should kill any human, period. Imagine someone with Hulk full power throwing around a human and it doing absolutely nothing physically to him. That shit would be embarrassing. He shouldn't even be able to dodge a blow from this version of Superman since his speed is human level. I don't care how much you try to twist this as a skill thing. Let's stick with Superman having some of his powers, please.

Originally posted by carver9
Even of he's using 70% of Superman's power, it's still a terrible showing. A glancing blow should kill any human, period. Imagine someone with Hulk full power throwing around a human and it doing absolutely nothing physically to him. That shit would be embarrassing. He shouldn't even be able to dodge a blow from this version of Superman since his speed is human level. I don't care how much you try to twist this as a skill thing. Let's stick with Superman having some of his powers, please.

Or these

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Typo - I meant the X factor that is skill.

Again, with another example, Karate Kid:

Skill is a separate 'stat' from power and speed:
https://i.postimg.cc/x1Z78WS3/2UEoBS6.jpg

Supergirl has power - but no skill (and has a hard time with Equus):
https://i.postimg.cc/KvZCHPNB/ef8w2qA.jpg

Yet KK casually takes him apart:
https://i.postimg.cc/nz4wdr93/HFDOULM.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/SRm1H4Wk/NBZZc0T.jpg

Skill against Strength (so again, showing how DC splits skill as another stat):
https://i.postimg.cc/xTtBDXx7/RJGsRLI.jpg

Without looking, using pure skill, he redirects Mon-El to another solar system:
https://i.postimg.cc/gJFTq8jw/v3D0wrz.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/yNSGZv14/9BaMrCk.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/fRypwM1b/gmEweyi.jpg

In short, Skill is just a magical stat that writers use. I use extreme examples, of course, but that is to highlight how simply looking at pretty pictures and attempting to force maths onto them is wrong - one needs to actually know comics, and to know how the storytelling medium works.

It even has a trope name: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CharlesAtlasSuperpower

With your Zoom example, which you use to showcase how WW is faster than PG, she is blatantly not as fast as Zoom - you can see what speed looks like (Zoom is so fast, he is'metro manning', as you so quaintly put it, into 4 people):

Were she comparable in speed, she too would be split into multiple people - her lasso would be split etc. But it isn't - so she is nowhere near as fast as him.

But she still caught him, thanks to skill. IOW, it is pretty useless as proof of her speed, because you cannot say how fast she was going.

Or in short, I feel you just basically choose to ignore skill examples I provided. Possibly you're trying to downplay Superman(he loses in skill department or he loses in superpowers department)

Also, an inexperienced Lor Zod not only blitz Superman (who saw him coming and thought he was Zod), he was able to ko him. Action Comics 996...

upload images

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Doesn't this logic basically apply to basically all the "skilled" characters though?
Like just a page ago, Cyclops tanked Carol's blast without getting put down

Or these

I already argued with Dark about the Carol scans. 🤷🏿

He knows I don't think those scans are relevant or mean anything. He's used them against me before. Superman had his powers in the scans you posted, though.

Originally posted by carver9
Also, an inexperienced Lor Zod not only blitz Superman (who saw him coming and thought he was Zod), he was able to ko him. Action Comics 996...

upload images

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998

Or in short, I feel you just basically choose to ignore skill examples I provided. Possibly you're trying to downplay Superman(he loses in skill department or he loses in superpowers department)

Originally posted by carver9
I already argued with Dark about the Carol scans. 🤷🏿

He knows I don't think those scans are relevant or mean anything. He's used them against me before. Superman had his powers in the scans you posted, though.

Originally posted by carver9
he was able to ko him. Action Comics 996...

upload images

Originally posted by carver9
Even of he's using 70% of Superman's power, it's still a terrible showing. A glancing blow should kill any human, period. Imagine someone with Hulk full power throwing around a human and it doing absolutely nothing physically to him. That shit would be embarrassing. He shouldn't even be able to dodge a blow from this version of Superman since his speed is human level. I don't care how much you try to twist this as a skill thing. Let's stick with Superman having some of his powers, please.

I won't say it did absolutely nothing to him, though. You obviously see Clark suffering. I mean, Daredevil has been punched by the Hulk before....

BTW, just remembered and searched(since Carver brought the Lor-Zod scene first)
Carver tried to claim exactly like he did in a few years ago, even though others had pointed out he was wrong at that scene

Originally posted by xJLxKing
I know why you asked him

You claimed Zod Jr, knocked Superman out. Yet it was left in a cliffhangers. We found out in the recent Action Comics, they kept fighting and Superman pretty much defeats him with ease. We also witness, Superman getting KOed by Zod.
Somehow you’re trying to correlate that Zod knocked Superman out so Zod Jr knocked him out...

Am I right?

Originally posted by Galan007
Indeed. 👆

Trinity #3- Konvikt punches Superman. Superman is down with his eyes closed. Issue ends. We are led to believe Supes was KO'd:

Trinity #4- In the very first page of this issue we find out that Superman was NOT KO'd, as he literally gets right back up immediately after being punched:

End of issue cliffhangers like this are used ALL THE TIME in comics... They don't mean shit. srsly

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Well, my edit seems pretty appropriate here, judging by you started using irrevelent scans(not even skill related, while the topic asked skills/both they're powerless

You mentioned him not being as skilled or used to Superman powers which is the reason he couldn't ko a human. A kryptonian who isn't anywhere near as skill as Clark with his powers was able to do something a full fledge Superman clone couldn't do, against a human.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
BTW, just remembered and searched(since Carver brought the Lor-Zod scene first)
Carver tried to claim exactly like he did in a few years ago, even though others had pointed out he was wrong at that scene

His eyes were still closed in the first page of the book. He just woke up, lol.

Originally posted by carver9
You mentioned him not being as skilled or used to Superman powers which is the reason he couldn't ko a human. A kryptonian who isn't anywhere near as skill as Clark with his powers was able to do something a full fledge Superman clone couldn't do, against a human.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
BTW, didn't the following comic immediately show Superman was conscious/not get koed as you claimed?
https://ibb.co/Dz7rgVf
https://ibb.co/PGfbLX9

Originally posted by carver9
His eyes were still closed in the first page of the book. He just woke up, lol.

Originally posted by Galan007

End of issue cliffhangers like this are used ALL THE TIME in comics... They don't mean shit. srsly