Superman vs Cyclops - twist

I love the showing for cyclops being held up as evidence but examples from Supes being disregarded.

With or without powers, Supes is an A class. He’s still Superman.
Without his powers he still has at least as much willpower if not more than Hal Jordan, more determination than Batman, more heart than Wonder Woman. He still mastered multiple martial arts, trained boxing with Wildcat, and trained pressure points and other fighting by Batman.

He’s obviously going to be much more limited in showings without powers than a character like Cyclops, but I think he has a lot of quality ones in the small sample size.

A large part of me wants to say Scott because he has to deal with his more human stats more often, but Scott doesn’t really beat anyone of note heads up with martial skill either.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Note how Batman isn't in those scenes 👆

Speaking of Batman, here he is unable - despite trying his best - to beat Kite Man down....

Hell yeah.

Is Kite Man getting his own animated series or I just got as high as ShadowFyre? 😂

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, I'm just saying if Carv (as an example) used someone beating Owlman as proof someone would beat Batman, we'd all crucify him, and rightly so.....

The initial point of the feat though was for a powerless Superman vs powerless Cyclops, and yet it got brought to this...

Originally posted by Delta1938
The initial point of the feat though was for a powerless Superman vs powerless Cyclops, and yet it got brought to this...

And if the fight were powerless Superman vs powerless/gear-less Batman, we'd all agree that Superman dominates, yeah?

Obviously Batman usually beats Owlman too, but that doesn’t take away from the feat of beating 3 alternate Batmen while powerless being impressive.

Yes, agreed.

So Superman is definitely more skilled than Batman, right? 3 Batman is greater than 1 Batman, if my math is right.

I think Smurph was saying that although Superman's feat against the three alternate Batmen is impressive, but that doesn't necessarily mean Superman is more skilled than the Prime Batman
As alternate universe versions feats don't share the same feats as the main universe Superman

But I think the conclusion we can draw is Superman's skills > the three alternate Batmen(including Owlman)

Not quite.

The feat is impressive because they're all alternate Batmen. Everybody keeps pointing to that as the very reason the feat is impressive. And one is even Owlman.

So surely that means Clark is definitively more skilled than Bruce. Seems like we should all agree on that. The alternate Bats might not feat share but they're still Bats.

Didn't Batman take out three alt. Supermen, one of whom was Ultraman, the other, Bizarro?

Even without magic, he was still out skilling them.

With KMC maths and transitive properties, he's more skilled than Superman, who is more skilled than Batman, who is more skilled than Superman.

Yeah, that's what will happen when we use alt universe characters share feats.
Even though they're all Superman/Batman, doesn't necessarily mean they're on the same levels

YouTube video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyurb9SVnGk

Looks like the best thing DC came up with in decades, tbh.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Is Kite Man getting his own animated series or I just got as high as ShadowFyre? 😂

Sorry, yes he is!!! The trailer dropped a few days ago...

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Yeah, that's what will happen when we use alt universe characters share feats.
Even though they're all Superman/Batman, doesn't necessarily mean they're on the same levels

Are we now saying that part of the feat wasn't all that impressive? Seems like we're either inferring their skill based on Bruce's, or we're not.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Sorry, yes he is!!! The trailer dropped a few days ago...

Hell yeah.

Originally posted by Smurph
Idk, a moment ago it seemed like everybody thought that beating the two featless Batmans was impressive on the basis that they're Batman.

Are we now saying that part of the feat wasn't all that impressive? Seems like we're either inferring their skill based on Bruce's, or we're not.

These are my personal opinions, not sure about other posters here though

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
My opinions(like I said before) are we can draw the conclusion that Superman's skills > these three alternate universe Batmen.
So it should be based on these alt Batmen feats(someone like Owlman, for example) to say how impressive that feat is

These are my personal opinions, not sure about other posters here though

Cyclops ftw

Originally posted by Smurph
Idk, a moment ago it seemed like everybody thought that beating the two featless Batmans was impressive on the basis that they're Batman.

Are we now saying that part of the feat wasn't all that impressive? Seems like we're either inferring their skill based on Bruce's, or we're not.

As for the others, I would say its easy to infer -some- measure of skill, based on them being Bat-alternates, but not necessarily Prime Earth Batman equal.

Originally posted by Juntai
Owlman has his own feats, not so much on the others, but Owlman alone has fought Bruce to a standstill for 15 minutes before they quit fighting before. I would say its mosdef impressive that Clark is able to fight him and two others at once.

As for the others, I would say its easy to infer -some- measure of skill, based on them being Bat-alternates, but not necessarily Prime Earth Batman equal.

Yeah, but in the same comic, Batman Prime was literally dancing around Bizarro (who has his feats) AND Ultraman (with his back turned to them, no less!), who also has his own feats....

So if we say Owlman is in the rough vicinity of Bruce, due to him stalemating Bruce for 15 minutes, then....are we saying Bruce is faster than Ultraman AND Bizarro, and hence, as those two have fought Superman plenty of times in the past, Batman can do the same to Clark?

I think it's telling that once the Justice Lord versions of Superman/Batman (who explicitly had the same histories and origins) appeared, they were winning against their Earth Prime counterparts, and they needed to castle....

Originally posted by Smurph
Cool, I think we're on the same page

Cyclops ftw

Originally posted by Smurph
I think Scott looked pretty good against Wolverine in Schism.

Yeah he had his blasts, but it was in a melee fight and offset the obvious claws/physical/hf advantage