Superman vs New Genesis

Started by carver912 pages

@Darksaint...

I said Superman being mentally compromised IS an issue here which is the reason he would lose. Can you not read?

Originally posted by Juntai
In a revenge plot, he would be acting out of his concept of hope role, and probably couldnt draw his full power.
When has this "hope role" concept ever explicitly limited Superman on-panel due to brainwashing? Or are you just describing CIS?
Originally posted by Juntai
In a story where he's the very idea of hope and he sets to a task, nothing can stop him.
So... Superman wins because he's the protagonist. That's a characteristic he shares with every headlining superhero in comics???
Originally posted by Juntai
In this story, he'll fight it up with Orion for a bit, then Highfather will whammy him somehow and make him see shit right.
leonidas' OP set forth that the brainwashing is inescapable.
Originally posted by Galan007
^ Prep is a huge factor for me also... Mainly because of the MBs.
Am I the only one that thinks Highfather would individually take down this hypothetically bloodlusted Superman? Let alone a prepped Highfather... let alone a prepped Highfather who has the entirety of New Genesis helping him?????

i was curious about that myself....

Originally posted by ODG
When has this "hope role" concept ever explicitly limited Superman on-panel due to brainwashing? Or are you just describing CIS? So... Superman wins because he's the protagonist. That's a characteristic he shares with every headlining superhero in comics??? leonidas' OP set forth that the brainwashing is inescapable. Am I the only one that thinks Highfather would individually take down this hypothetically bloodlusted Superman? Let alone a prepped Highfather... let alone a prepped Highfather who has the entirety of New Genesis helping him?????
Yes, its been shown several times that both his mental state is almost everything in relation to his powers, and also that under mind control his full powers can't be accessed. It's also been shown that when acting in accordance to his role or what is good and just, his power is increased.

And no, not every protagonist is actually the living embodiment of hope.

Originally posted by carver9
@Darksaint...

I said Superman being mentally compromised IS an issue here which is the reason he would lose. Can you not read?

Oh, so Superman is not at 100%. I am 100% sure that is what leo wanted. Can you not understand?

Originally posted by Juntai
Yes, its been shown several times that both his mental state is almost everything in relation to his powers,
Mental state affects pretty much every superhero's powers. What sort of unremarkable attribute is this? And, yes, while this unremarkable premise is a factor that can be significant, your characterization of is an overexaggeration. The real thing that "is almost everything in relation to his powers" isn't his mental state. It's the plot. If the plot needs Superman to overcome all odds, yea. Which goes for every superhero.
Originally posted by Juntai
and also that under mind control his full powers can't be accessed.
This separate premise is yet another unremarkable concept that really has nothing to do with this "hope role" concept you're peddling.
Originally posted by Juntai
It's also been shown that when acting in accordance to his role or what is good and just, his power is increased.
Just provide an example of this "hope role" self-amp happening on-panel. Then, post an example where brainwashing short-circuited this "hope role" self-amp on-panel.
Originally posted by Juntai
And no, not every protagonist is actually the living embodiment of hope.

I'm glad this is being discussed. 🤤🤤🤤

Originally posted by carver9
I'm glad this is being discussed. 🤤🤤🤤

oh boy this is gonna get ugly lol and yeah--he's not mind controlled carv. he's just being tricked. he feels he's cmpletely in the right in deciding to finally rid the universe of its greatest source of evil.

👆 important thing is that I am once more correct, and carver is wrong as usual.

the flip side of that is that carv was wrong. is that really worth bringing up? to that end i'm officially declaring this a bully-free thread! 👆 so feel free to post whatever you like carv without that bully ds taking anymore of your lunch money. you're welcome.

Anyway, with 30 mins prep, as BFR is off:

The New Gods set their motherboxes to attack anything going over the speed of sound (like John Stewart did his ring).

As soon as Superman arrives, the Motherboxes all attack - I think there are about 20 of them that we know about?

One creates Kryptonite
One creates red sun radiation
One summons Shazam's lightning
One etc etc you get the picture.

And then someone time travels and undoes everything, making it so Superman never landed on Earth.

Originally posted by leonidas
the flip side of that is that carv was wrong. is that really worth bringing up? to that end i'm officially declaring this a bully-free thread! 👆 so feel free to post whatever you like carv without that bully ds taking anymore of your lunch money. you're welcome.

🤣🤣🤣🤣

Originally posted by leonidas
oh boy this is gonna get ugly lol and yeah--he's not mind controlled carv. he's just being tricked. he feels he's cmpletely in the right in deciding to finally rid the universe of its greatest source of evil.

Why wouldn't Orion be able to stand up to him?

frankly superman is just too powerful.

For Orion? Please explain.

Originally posted by ODG
Mental state affects pretty much every superhero's powers. What sort of unremarkable attribute is this? And, yes, while this unremarkable premise is a factor that can be significant, your characterization of is an overexaggeration. The real thing that "is almost everything in relation to his powers" isn't his mental state. It's the plot. If the plot needs Superman to overcome all odds, yea. Which goes for every superhero. This separate premise is yet another unremarkable concept that really has nothing to do with this "hope role" concept you're peddling. Just provide an example of this "hope role" self-amp happening on-panel. Then, post an example where brainwashing short-circuited this "hope role" self-amp on-panel.
To a degree, sure, all great stories are about a person or team overcoming odds.

Superman's mental state isn't the same, he is actually physically far more powerful or weaker, depending on it. He even spent the entire year of 52 without his powers entirely, just because he believed he didn't have them, then the moment he wanted them, he had them. Thats the degree his mental ability controls his power. We also know that his mental state causes him to draw in far more energy than normal, for example, when he's stressed.

And when he believes he can do the impossible, he can - can even carry the Bleed, for example.

But since you asked nicely, here's just one example that sums up a little of all the points I'm talking about.

Darkseid is using Anti-Life on him, a mental whammy job and because of this, Superman believes he's weaker and that Darkseid is too powerful for him to overcome, and Darkseid is even commenting how much weaker he is and teases him knowing why.

Then Superman chooses hope, and the two have a discussion about the very concept of hope and how it makes Superman so strong.

Well, you can read the rest.

https://imgur.com/a/km1NJvy

Originally posted by Juntai
To a degree, sure, all great stories are about a person or team overcoming odds.

Superman's mental state isn't the same, he is actually physically far more powerful or weaker, depending on it. He even spent the entire year of 52 without his powers entirely, just because he believed he didn't have them, then the moment he wanted them, he had them. Thats the degree his mental ability controls his power. We also know that his mental state causes him to draw in far more energy than normal, for example, when he's stressed.

And when he believes he can do the impossible, he can - can even carry the Bleed, for example.

But since you asked nicely, here's just one example that sums up a little of all the points I'm talking about.

Darkseid is using Anti-Life on him, a mental whammy job and because of this, Superman believes he's weaker and that Darkseid is too powerful for him to overcome, and Darkseid is even commenting how much weaker he is and teases him knowing why.

Then Superman chooses hope, and the two have a discussion about the very concept of hope and how it makes Superman so strong.

Well, you can read the rest.

https://imgur.com/a/km1NJvy

It's also the scale of the rising to the occasion.

Spidey, one of the poster boys for rising to the occasion - when HE needs to, he lifts a building.

With Superman, barely able to hold his own weight up, needs to rise to the occasion? He shatters a planet.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It's also the scale of the rising to the occasion.

Spidey, one of the poster boys for rising to the occasion - when HE needs to, he lifts a building.

With Superman, barely able to hold his own weight up, needs to rise to the occasion? He shatters a planet.

Remember, Spidey might like to hang around street levelers and low metas but his strength bracket is Colossus and She Hulk and Surfer etc.

Originally posted by carver9
For Orion? Please explain.

lol superman. is. simply. more. powerful. than. orion. like, in every way. evidence? their collective histories and feats. i'm about to remove the no-bullying clause in this thread. but by all means if you think orion has a feat anywhere from any time that superman can't actually top, please display it. it could be fun 👆