Phucking internet ate my reply to this post. So here it is paraphrased:
Originally posted by JuntaiThat amply proves Superman can mentally cockblock himself. Agreed. It does not, however, prove the converse.
To a degree, sure, all great stories are about a person or team overcoming odds.Superman's mental state isn't the same, he is actually physically far more powerful or weaker, depending on it. He even spent the entire year of 52 without his powers entirely, just because he believed he didn't have them, then the moment he wanted them, he had them. Thats the degree his mental ability controls his power.
Originally posted by JuntaiLike pretty much every superhero, bro.
We also know that his mental state causes him to draw in far more energy than normal, for example, when he's stressed.And when he believes he can do the impossible, he can - can even carry the Bleed, for example.
Oh, Superman achieved the "heretofore thought impossible feat of [insert xxxxxx]"? Wow! No other superhero in comics ever does things like that! Like Thor never absorbed the Godbomb! Like Wonder Woman never shredded the Lasso of Lies! Like Silver Surfer never stalled the Griever at the End of All Things for 16+ minutes! Like Doctor Light never absorbed the DC Multiverse's Light from within the Orrery of Worlds! Like... n1gga please.
Originally posted by JuntaiNo idea why those scans make you cream your panties. But let's reset. Give me the issue #s first so I can read the comics themselves.
But since you asked nicely, here's just one example that sums up a little of all the points I'm talking about.Darkseid is using Anti-Life on him, a mental whammy job and because of this, Superman believes he's weaker and that Darkseid is too powerful for him to overcome, and Darkseid is even commenting how much weaker he is and teases him knowing why.
Then Superman chooses hope, and the two have a discussion about the very concept of hope and how it makes Superman so strong.
Well, you can read the rest.
omg the terrible dialogue in that scene lol 'invading my dreams is low even for you'?? 😂
anyway, yeah i gotta say i'm with odg on this one jun. i'm not opposed to your overall premise, i just don't think those scans are the best bits of support for the idea you're getting at.
it is funny though that darkseid even with mb couldn't figure out what superman was doing while fighting him. and it was a ludicrous speed feat. certainly among his best of all time.
Originally posted by ODG
That amply proves Superman can mentally cockblock himself. Agreed. It does not, however, prove the converse.
I think you and Juntai are arguing two different things, whilst agreeing on the same thing?
Superman can go from 100 to 0, literally powerless. You both agree on that (I think).
Superman can also go from 0 to 100 (the example of 52 that Juntai gave). You....also both agree on that. Unless you didn't in your paraphrase, so I could be wrong.
That is dynamic strength right there. 100 to 0 to 100, purely because he wants to. I think where you then diverge, is you're thinking Juntai is also arguing Superman can go 100 to 1,000 - but that is an extension of the central premise, the premise which you both agree on.
Originally posted by carver9
Ok, I kinda agree with that. People that's depleted can gain a boost in power which is a form of dynamic strength.
The thing is, it's literal dynamic strength though, with the additional 'every hero rising to the occasion' that Superman is always part of.
It's like stacking the dynamism of Colossus when he shifts between his armoured and human form....and the heart force of Thing on top,
I think Juntai is then saying well, on top of this, is the way DC keep wanking Superman (and Batman) as the epicenter of hope blah blah blah. Sure, all heroes in comics have this Heart Force and rise up when the chips are down, but Colossus isn't held up as Marvel's antibody to protect it, nor is Surfer, or Cyclops, or Reed, hell even in DC other superheroes aren't as central to it as Superman is.
Originally posted by ODGSure, fulfilled what you were looking for. Mental whammy, wasnt powerful enough. Embraced hope, protected innocents, overpowered an amped god and won. You thought you had something asking for a something super specific and pretending his entire narrative history doesn't support this, though.
Phucking internet ate my reply to this post. So here it is paraphrased: That amply proves Superman can mentally cockblock himself. Agreed. It does not, however, prove the converse. Like pretty much every superhero, bro.Oh, Superman achieved the "heretofore thought impossible feat of [insert xxxxxx]"? Wow! No other superhero in comics ever does things like that! Like Thor never absorbed the Godbomb! Like Wonder Woman never shredded the Lasso of Lies! Like Silver Surfer never stalled the Griever at the End of All Things for 16+ minutes! Like Doctor Light never absorbed the DC Multiverse's Light from within the Orrery of Worlds! Like... n1gga please. No idea why those scans make you cream your panties. But let's reset. Give me the issue #s first so I can read the comics themselves.
^ There is no masterplan at work here.
I am very aware of DC comics defining Superman's metatextual role in an on-panel manner. Doomsday Clock, in particular, was quite explicit on this. I am, however, firmly against the notion that Superman not advancing this "hope role" automatically nerfs him.
On KMC, we're supposed to remove plot from consideration. It would be disingenuous for Superman detractors to render any vs. thread indiscussible because, "Superman always wins because of plot! You're only allowed to discuss non-plot related feats, which he has very few of since he's always the main character. End of discussion."
Conversely, it is equally disingenous for Superman supporters to render any vs. thread indiscussible because, "You're only allowed to discuss plot-related feats due to Superman's unique metatextual role. Superman cannot be honestly discussed when he's removed from the context of plot. End of discussion."
Both approaches are transparent self-serving perversions of Superman's metatextual role. But if you want to keep discussing this, just give me the comic issue #s that I asked for.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Too many posters have injected their own preconceptions of what "dynamic strength" means. It's become a loaded term at this point. One which I personally have little interest in discussing due to how circular such discussions appear.
I think you and Juntai are arguing two different things, whilst agreeing on the same thing?Superman can go from 100 to 0, literally powerless. You both agree on that (I think).
Superman can also go from 0 to 100 (the example of 52 that Juntai gave). You....also both agree on that. Unless you didn't in your paraphrase, so I could be wrong.
That is dynamic strength right there. 100 to 0 to 100, purely because he wants to. I think where you then diverge, is you're thinking Juntai is also arguing Superman can go 100 to 1,000 - but that is an extension of the central premise, the premise which you both agree on.
If someone cannot tell the difference between how Hulk's strength amping works and Superman's strength amping works, that's their problem. Not mine.
Juntai and I are arguing something distinctly different. At least, I am.
Originally posted by ODG
Too many posters have injected their own preconceptions of what "dynamic strength" means. It's become a loaded term at this point. One which I personally have little interest in discussing due to how circular such discussions appear.If someone cannot tell the difference between how Hulk's strength amping works and Superman's strength amping works, that's their problem. Not mine.
Juntai and I are arguing something distinctly different. At least, I am.
👆
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
ODG's post is about.... Superman's hope role in the DCU.
As I thought. Carry on.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85That I am even entertaining this notion is ridiculous.
ODG's post is about.... Superman's hope role in the DCU.
Like Superman doesn't have enough appearances. Like Superman doesn't have enough feats. Like Superman doesn't have enough feats that stand on their own separate from PIS. Somehow... unless Superman is positioned into a "hope role" he is... nerfed?
Seriously, phuck off with this sh1t.
Sorry to be so direct. But also not sorry.
Originally posted by ODG
That I am even entertaining this notion is ridiculous.Like Superman doesn't have enough appearances. Like Superman doesn't have enough feats. Like Superman doesn't have enough feats that stand on their own separate from PIS. Somehow... unless Superman is positioned into a "hope role" he is... nerfed?
Seriously, phuck off with this sh1t.
Sorry to be so direct. But also not sorry.
😂 yes, I got that from your initial posts. I hope you guys can reach an amicable decision.
Originally posted by ODG
That I am even entertaining this notion is ridiculous.Like Superman doesn't have enough appearances. Like Superman doesn't have enough feats. Like Superman doesn't have enough feats that stand on their own separate from PIS. Somehow... unless Superman is positioned into a "hope role" he is... nerfed?
Seriously, phuck off with this sh1t.
Sorry to be so direct. But also not sorry.
C’mon ODG, join us in the House of El.
Originally posted by carver9
I would probably say Bill has better fts. He took s planet explosion after fighting against a trans tier opponent, and then had to endure the pull of a Black Hole. This was all during the time he also fought Stardust and koed from the planet explosion.
What makes it better?