Gladiator vs Orion

Originally posted by batdude123
If we're going off of actual evidence instead of carver's delusions...

Orion has the ability to hit Gladiator.

Gladiator does not have the ability to KO Orion instantly.

As people have demonstrated with on-panel feats, it's even debatable that Gladiator is faster.

If we go by on panel evidence, Orion doesn't have the speed fts.

Why couldn't Gladiator ko someone he's significantly faster than?

It's not debatable if Gladiator is faster or not. One has speed fts, the other doesn't.

Originally posted by carver9
If we go by on panel evidence, Orion doesn't have the speed fts.

Why couldn't Gladiator ko someone he's significantly faster than?

It's not debatable if Gladiator is faster or not. One has speed fts, the other doesn't.

Gladiator has a combat speed feat of fighting Hyperion, where he throws a punch in a nanosecond.

Does he have any other quantifiable combat speed feats with a clear lower bound? Or are you basing his speed advantage just off that one feat?

Orion has a blind millisecond reaction feat in which he responds without seeing the attack coming. It's reasonable to assume his reactions are even faster when he sees the attack coming.

Originally posted by carver9
If we go by on panel evidence, Orion doesn't have the speed fts.

Why couldn't Gladiator ko someone he's significantly faster than?

It's not debatable if Gladiator is faster or not. One has speed fts, the other doesn't.

So Orion keeping up with, and actually gaining on Black Racer doesn't count as a speed feat?

https://imgur.com/odQPRKY

It's by no means clear Gladiator is faster.

Originally posted by h1a8
Gladiator has a combat speed feat of fighting Hyperion, where he throws a punch in a nanosecond.

Does he have any other quantifiable combat speed feats with a clear lower bound? Or are you basing his speed advantage just off that one feat?

Orion has a blind millisecond reaction feat in which he responds without seeing the attack coming. It's reasonable to assume his reactions are even faster when he sees the attack coming.

*microsecond

Originally posted by carver9
Orion cant fly, so no, he ain't blitzing anyone.

He's flying here:

Originally posted by Delta1938
Orion flies from New Genesis to Earth in less than a heartbeat.

https://i.imgur.com/FKOH2bQ.jpeg

Even if I ridiculously lowball it to just half the size of the universe, which which is 93 billion light-years(so 46.5 lightyears)--

https://www.britannica.com/topic/observable-universe

And lowball the time frame to the low end heart beat of a top condition athlete (40 beats per minute, so let's do 2 seconds since Orion took less than that)--

https://www.forbes.com/health/wellness/normal-heart-rate-by-age/

That's roughly 220 septillion times lightspeed. So so even with this ABSOLUTELY MASSIVE DISRESPECT to Orion's feat, it's still over 7 quadrillion times faster than Gladiator flying at 100 times lightspeed.

And still, 200 lightyears in minutes compared to the massive disrespect of 46.5 billion loghtyears in 2 seconds? Yeah, still weak sauce.

No mention of leaping in that comic (lol).

Yeah, Orion used to fly around all the time without his harness in the "Return of the New Gods" days... So unless that one specific era of his history became non-canon all of the sudden and I just never got the memo, then I see no reason why it wouldn't still be valid? The pre-crisis aspect of the feat doesn't really matter, since post-crisis Orion himself explicitly retained full working knowledge of pre-crisis continuity(as did most of the New Gods.)

After all, Darkseid and Highfather can also fly unaided, but like Orion, they generally choose not to.

Originally posted by batdude123
So Orion keeping up with, and actually gaining on Black Racer doesn't count as a speed feat?

https://imgur.com/odQPRKY

It's by no means clear Gladiator is faster.

On his disks. Gotcha. All you're doing is helping my argument.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, Orion used to fly around all the time without his harness in the "Return of the New Gods" days... So unless that one specific era of his history became non-canon all of the sudden and I just never got the memo, then I see no reason why it wouldn't still be valid? The pre-crisis aspect of the feat doesn't really matter, since post-crisis Orion himself explicitly retained full working knowledge of pre-crisis continuity(as did most of the New Gods.)

After all, Darkseid and Highfather can also fly unaided, but like Orion, they generally choose not to.

👆 but guess this willjust be ignored by OP...

Originally posted by carver9
The scan i posted literally has him turning in the air, lmmfao. What kind of jump allows people to maneuver in the air? Educate me.

Originally posted by carver9
No one would think he is flying unless, he is actually flying and again, he's literally maneuvering in the sky. There's no other way to explain that minus him flying.

No other explanation...apart from what is given in the comic, amirite? Below, you can clearly see him maneuvering in the sky lol:

And again, he's even chasing a jeep down lmao, changing direction, following trails etc. Yet, the narration text clearly says:

He's leaping. Artist decided for whatever reason to draw him like that, but the text is crystal clear. Of course, you'd have known this had you, you know, READ the comics.

The Incredible Hulk (1962) #3 and #4, for those interested. Comic hosting sites once more prove how forum myths can be easily shattered by anyone.

Originally posted by carver9
Sadly, Orion only use disks now. I don't think either of us are dumb enough to think Hulk and Orion could fly even though both of them have done so in the past...

You're right, I am now not dumb enough to think Hulk EVER flew. You, on the other hand....

Originally posted by carver9
On his disks. Gotcha. All you're doing is helping my argument.

... by providing speed feats when you said he has none? Ok?

It's also been explained to you by multiple posters that ALL of Orion's history is, in fact, canon. You've given ZERO justification or evidence to the contrary, aside from simply not liking it.

Anyway, Orion stomps.

Originally posted by carver9
On his disks. Gotcha. All you're doing is helping my argument.

Originally posted by h1a8
Gladiator has a combat speed feat of fighting Hyperion, where he throws a punch in a nanosecond.

Does he have any other quantifiable combat speed feats with a clear lower bound? Or are you basing his speed advantage just off that one feat?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
No other explanation...apart from what is given in the comic, amirite? Below, you can clearly see him maneuvering in the sky lol:

And again, he's even chasing a jeep down lmao, changing direction, following trails etc. Yet, the narration text clearly says:

He's leaping. Artist decided for whatever reason to draw him like that, but the text is crystal clear. Of course, you'd have known this had you, you know, READ the comics.

The Incredible Hulk (1962) #3 and #4, for those interested. Comic hosting sites once more prove how forum myths can be easily shattered by anyone.

You're right, I am now not dumb enough to think Hulk EVER flew. You, on the other hand....

Him turning mid flight is flying. Jumping doesn't allow you to maneuvering in the air? Can I use that in a debate? Hulk being able to change trajectory when jumping?

Originally posted by batdude123
... by providing speed feats when you said he has none? Ok?

It's also been explained to you by multiple posters that ALL of Orion's history is, in fact, canon. You've given ZERO justification or evidence to the contrary, aside from simply not liking it.

Anyway, Orion stomps.

I already gave evidence. You just don't want to accept it.

Originally posted by carver9
Him turning mid flight is flying. Jumping doesn't allow you to maneuvering in the air? Can I use that in a debate? Hulk being able to change trajectory when jumping?

Narration is clear what he is doing, though? It literally says he is leaping? Where in the narration at all does it say he is flying?

Gladiator had pretty impressive speed in that FF issue with Thor and Iron Man guest starring.

The FF and Avengers team land on a Shi'ar planet to steal weapons, and using Reed's time dilation field they hyper-speed themselves up to the point where the Shi'ar are all frozen like statues around them. Returning from a battle hundreds of light years away, Gladiator detects the theft of the weapons with his hyper vision, then instantly flies over there and increases his combat speed to match the heroes and engage accelerated Thor in battle. He mentions that he is the only Shi'ar capable of increasing his speed to overcome the time dilation effect and be able to interact. That was back when Gladiator was still impressive though.

Originally posted by basilisk
Gladiator had pretty impressive speed in that FF issue with Thor and Iron Man guest starring.

The FF and Avengers team land on a Shi'ar planet to steal weapons, and using Reed's time dilation field they hyper-speed themselves up to the point where the Shi'ar are all frozen like statues around them. Returning from a battle hundreds of light years away, Gladiator detects the theft of the weapons with his hyper vision, then instantly flies over there and increases his combat speed to match the heroes and engage accelerated Thor in battle. He mentions that he is the only Shi'ar capable of increasing his speed to overcome the time dilation effect and be able to interact. That was back when Gladiator was still impressive though.

That was an alternative Gladiator. The feat can't be used for 616 Gladiator.

Originally posted by carver9
If we go by on panel evidence, Orion doesn't have the speed fts.

Why couldn't Gladiator ko someone he's significantly faster than?

It's not debatable if Gladiator is faster or not. One has speed fts, the other doesn't.

What are Gladiator's speed feats that makes him significantly faster in combat?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Narration is clear what he is doing, though? It literally says he is leaping? Where in the narration at all does it say he is flying?

👌🏾... I'll just use this in a debate going forward.

Originally posted by basilisk
Gladiator had pretty impressive speed in that FF issue with Thor and Iron Man guest starring.

The FF and Avengers team land on a Shi'ar planet to steal weapons, and using Reed's time dilation field they hyper-speed themselves up to the point where the Shi'ar are all frozen like statues around them. Returning from a battle hundreds of light years away, Gladiator detects the theft of the weapons with his hyper vision, then instantly flies over there and increases his combat speed to match the heroes and engage accelerated Thor in battle. He mentions that he is the only Shi'ar capable of increasing his speed to overcome the time dilation effect and be able to interact. That was back when Gladiator was still impressive though.

The speed fts still stand, though.

Originally posted by carver9
The speed fts still stand, though.

How so? The mods already ruled the feat unusable because it's from an alternate timeline. Did you forget? I know it's been a while.

What feat(s) are you basing Gladiator's significantly superior combat speed over Orion on?

If you're referring to the nanosecond feat, I'll accept that. I'm just curious if there are any other combat-related feats.