Living Tribunal vs World Forger

### **The Living Tribunal: A Joke Compared to DC’s Cosmics**

The **Living Tribunal** is supposed to be Marvel’s ultimate cosmic judge, but let’s be honest—compared to DC’s cosmic powerhouses, he’s **mid at best**. Here’s why most of DC’s top-tier entities would body him with ease.

---

### **1. The Presence Would Erase Him Instantly**
- Marvel fans love to say the Tribunal is second only to **The One Above All**, but TOAA is just Marvel’s version of DC’s **The Presence**—and The Presence actually does things.
- The Presence has directly shaped the DC Multiverse, resurrected beings, and given power to cosmic forces like **Lucifer Morningstar and The Spectre**.
- The Tribunal, meanwhile, gets folded every time Marvel needs a hype moment.

**Verdict:** The Presence wouldn’t even need to lift a finger. Tribunal is dust.

---

### **2. Lucifer Morningstar & Michael Demiurgos Would Play With Him**
- **Lucifer Morningstar** (DC’s second-most powerful being) and **Michael Demiurgos** (his brother) are basically **DC’s Beyonders and more**.
- Lucifer can **create and shape entire realities** with just his will, and Michael supplies the raw power to do so.
- The Living Tribunal? He just "judges" things—when he’s not getting jobbed.

**Verdict:** Tribunal wouldn't last a second in their presence.

---

### **3. The Endless Are Conceptually Beyond Him**
- DC has **The Endless**—Death, Destiny, Dream, Destruction, Desire, Despair, and Delirium—who embody fundamental forces of existence.
- Tribunal is just a **multiversal court judge** with three faces.
- **Death of the Endless** literally exists beyond gods and cosmic beings, making Tribunal’s “balance” irrelevant.

**Verdict:** Tribunal is bound to laws, The Endless **are** the laws.

---

### **4. The Spectre Would Rip Him Apart**
- The **Spectre** is the **Wrath of God** in DC, fueled by The Presence.
- He has soloed **universal and multiversal threats**, and when at full power, he’s stronger than most cosmic beings in Marvel.
- Tribunal got **one-shot by the Beyonders**—Spectre fights **The Presence’s enemies** on a regular basis.

**Verdict:** Tribunal wouldn't survive a Spectre judgment.

---

### **5. Even the Monitors & Anti-Monitor Would Handle Him**
- The **Monitors** in DC oversee the entire multiverse and actively interfere when threats arise.
- The **Anti-Monitor** literally **erased infinite universes** during *Crisis on Infinite Earths*.
- Tribunal? He let Thanos and Doom play god multiple times and just watched.

**Verdict:** The Monitors actually **do their job**, Tribunal just stands around looking shiny.

---

### **Final Verdict: The Living Tribunal Is Outclassed**
Compared to **DC’s cosmic hierarchy**, the Living Tribunal is just a glorified **middle manager** in the multiverse. DC’s top-tier entities operate on **higher conceptual levels**, while Tribunal spends most of his time getting **clapped by whatever new villain Marvel wants to hype up**.

If Tribunal tried to step into DC, he’d be out of a job **real quick**.

🔥 **What do you think?** Could Tribunal stand a chance against any of DC’s cosmics, or is he just a **shiny punching bag**? Let me know in the comments! 👇

LT is peer to Spectre without the feats to match.

LT is the sum of the multiverse and judge and protector of it. But we’ve seen many ways in which he is limited. At the inauguration of the 8th cosmos, he was killed because the hierarchy wasn’t yet formed. We also know the Beyond Realm is beyond him. They killed him creation kept going. One iteration was an alternate Adam Warlock, and he died as well.

Then, characters like Urdu and Mother of Horrors are not only from outside of his jurisdiction, but from outside TOAA as well.

Spectre likewise is limited in capacity in many ways, despite also being a character supposedly acting the will of The Presence and existing in all times and universes.

Based off fts, Spectre would work WF as well.

I would say LT judgement got overruled by Korvac.
He had to team with Order and Chaos and Stranger and the other cosmic just to fight Galactus in MC2, and his judgement was overruled by Reed Richards whipping a gun together.

Name what he has done.

Who, World Forger?

No, LT

Worldforger created everything and more than the sum whole of everything LT was created to protect.
In fact, as we saw when Warlock gained the power of a universe, he was given the same introduction as Tribunal.
LT is a product of universe creation. Forger creates.

Forger can’t even exist inside of the multiverse without greatly diminishing himself, and even in diminished state the brothers couldn’t flex their power without shattering reality. The sorcerers had to construct them a place.

The power of the brothers/6th dimensional beings/Super Celestials is called Dimensional Superstructure. They govern all things imaginable and unimaginable.
Which is why they’re over Mxy. Mxy is imagination, as is the 5th dimension. They govern all things imaginable and unimaginable.

He creates universes out of every dream and possibility, and created Barbatos to devour those not worthy to be part of the multiverse.

Crafted hypertime with his hands.

🤦🏿🤦🏿... LT knocking out Oblivion is better than anything World Forger has done. Got scans of WF creating Barbatos and the Universes and Multiverses? Heck, Batman even used the room of Forger to move suns close to Superman. Also, WF needed everything aligned, the hammer lit, anvil, Superman absent and Mxy involvement as well in order to attempt to create his perfect multiverse. Maybe you have scans of him creating these things though. I'll wait.

Also, Forger mother was more powerful than WF and she taxed herself deatroying a Universe and again, during this instance, she was more powerful.

Also, if WF is omnipotent, why didn't he know Batman was going to betray him?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
### **The Living Tribunal: A Joke Compared to DC’s Cosmics**

The **Living Tribunal** is supposed to be Marvel’s ultimate cosmic judge, but let’s be honest—compared to DC’s cosmic powerhouses, he’s **mid at best**. Here’s why most of DC’s top-tier entities would body him with ease.

---

### **1. The Presence Would Erase Him Instantly**
- Marvel fans love to say the Tribunal is second only to **The One Above All**, but TOAA is just Marvel’s version of DC’s **The Presence**—and The Presence actually does things.
- The Presence has directly shaped the DC Multiverse, resurrected beings, and given power to cosmic forces like **Lucifer Morningstar and The Spectre**.
- The Tribunal, meanwhile, gets folded every time Marvel needs a hype moment.

**Verdict:** The Presence wouldn’t even need to lift a finger. Tribunal is dust.

---

### **2. Lucifer Morningstar & Michael Demiurgos Would Play With Him**
- **Lucifer Morningstar** (DC’s second-most powerful being) and **Michael Demiurgos** (his brother) are basically **DC’s Beyonders and more**.
- Lucifer can **create and shape entire realities** with just his will, and Michael supplies the raw power to do so.
- The Living Tribunal? He just "judges" things—when he’s not getting jobbed.

**Verdict:** Tribunal wouldn't last a second in their presence.

---

### **3. The Endless Are Conceptually Beyond Him**
- DC has **The Endless**—Death, Destiny, Dream, Destruction, Desire, Despair, and Delirium—who embody fundamental forces of existence.
- Tribunal is just a **multiversal court judge** with three faces.
- **Death of the Endless** literally exists beyond gods and cosmic beings, making Tribunal’s “balance” irrelevant.

**Verdict:** Tribunal is bound to laws, The Endless **are** the laws.

---

### **4. The Spectre Would Rip Him Apart**
- The **Spectre** is the **Wrath of God** in DC, fueled by The Presence.
- He has soloed **universal and multiversal threats**, and when at full power, he’s stronger than most cosmic beings in Marvel.
- Tribunal got **one-shot by the Beyonders**—Spectre fights **The Presence’s enemies** on a regular basis.

**Verdict:** Tribunal wouldn't survive a Spectre judgment.

---

### **5. Even the Monitors & Anti-Monitor Would Handle Him**
- The **Monitors** in DC oversee the entire multiverse and actively interfere when threats arise.
- The **Anti-Monitor** literally **erased infinite universes** during *Crisis on Infinite Earths*.
- Tribunal? He let Thanos and Doom play god multiple times and just watched.

**Verdict:** The Monitors actually **do their job**, Tribunal just stands around looking shiny.

---

### **Final Verdict: The Living Tribunal Is Outclassed**
Compared to **DC’s cosmic hierarchy**, the Living Tribunal is just a glorified **middle manager** in the multiverse. DC’s top-tier entities operate on **higher conceptual levels**, while Tribunal spends most of his time getting **clapped by whatever new villain Marvel wants to hype up**.

If Tribunal tried to step into DC, he’d be out of a job **real quick**.

🔥 **What do you think?** Could Tribunal stand a chance against any of DC’s cosmics, or is he just a **shiny punching bag**? Let me know in the comments! 👇

Hey man. You’ve convinced me, despite what he actually represents in canon. So as I stated earlier it’s just my opinion based on canon vs whatever you’re going to pull him down to around below Doctor Manhattan obvs. Who actually weighs in far above his station according to popular opinion on this forum. The Living Tribunal doesn’t fluctuate nearly as much as the Spectre. Different character altogether. The Beyonders.

That was just my rant mixed in. You may be correct though and the LT may be Volthoom level in DC cosmology but I’d highly doubt it.

Living Tribunal wins 7–8/10 times in a straight cosmic conflict.

But World Forger remains equal or superior in creative force, particularly in defining what comes next in the cosmic narrative. He’s like the author of a future book, while the Tribunal is the lawyer of the current edition.

Originally posted by Stoic
while the Tribunal is the lawyer of the current edition.

The lawyer of the current edition

Originally posted by carver9
🤦🏿🤦🏿... LT knocking out Oblivion is better than anything World Forger has done. Got scans of WF creating Barbatos and the Universes and Multiverses? Heck, Batman even used the room of Forger to move suns close to Superman. Also, WF needed everything aligned, the hammer lit, anvil, Superman absent and Mxy involvement as well in order to attempt to create his perfect multiverse. Maybe you have scans of him creating these things though. I'll wait.

Originally posted by carver9
Also, Forger mother was more powerful than WF and she taxed herself deatroying a Universe and again, during this instance, she was more powerful.

Originally posted by carver9
Also, if WF is omnipotent, why didn't he know Batman was going to betray him?

Carver's mind is the biggest mystery of all.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The lawyer of the current edition

which law school did he go to?

Originally posted by Juntai
Worldforger created everything and more than the sum whole of everything LT was created to protect.
In fact, as we saw when Warlock gained the power of a universe, he was given the same introduction as Tribunal.
LT is a product of universe creation. Forger creates.

Forger can’t even exist inside of the multiverse without greatly diminishing himself, and even in diminished state the brothers couldn’t flex their power without shattering reality. The sorcerers had to construct them a place.

The power of the brothers/6th dimensional beings/Super Celestials is called Dimensional Superstructure. They govern all things imaginable and unimaginable.
Which is why they’re over Mxy. Mxy is imagination, as is the 5th dimension. They govern all things imaginable and unimaginable.

He creates universes out of every dream and possibility, and created Barbatos to devour those not worthy to be part of the multiverse.

Crafted hypertime with his hands.

pretty much, dc has a much much bigger cosmology
being a small god's helper in a small multiverse doesn't help LT's case

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The lawyer of the current edition

who's more powerful aside, if we're talking pure hierarchy lt is closer to the top than wf is though.