Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It takes 10x as much energy to cut through skull bone as it is to cut skin.Sam cut Rulk's skin.
He would need 10x that amount of energy to cut through Rulk's skull, assuming things being equal (his wings aren't razor sharp, Vs a spear designed purely for stabbing, but nobody seems to acknowledge that).
I reckon Namor can output 10x what Sam did, and if we allow the points of a stabbing weapon to have a smaller surface area than that of a wing's edge, he would need even less than 10x what Sam output.
I replied yesterday with this :
Originally posted by h1a8
It was the motor in the backpack wings, not Sam's strength. This same motor was responsible for generating enough stopping force to stop Rulk's full swing (bad writing since Sam's hands and forearm should have been shattered in the process).
You need to prove that Namor can generate at least 10 times the force of the motors powering the wings (Sam wasn't using his human strength). I even provided a feat for the motors in that post, as shown above.
Also, slashing is much easier than stabbing. A sharp knife can cut bone with a slashing motion, but stabbing completely through would be far more difficult.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah I ignored it because, as you say, it was bad writing.A key word though is a 'sharp' knife. His wings aren't sharp knives, they're wings.
Any other feats for the wings, without using an example of bad writing?
The wings aren't sharp?
1. "Sharp" is a vague term and subjective. What seems sharp to you might not be sharp to someone else. Even a sheet of paper or a so-called "dull" knife can cut.
2. Nothing in fiction prevents wings from being sharp and used as weapons. I'm pretty sure there is another example where fictional wings are intended and shown to also function as cutting weapons.
3. The issue with the writing isn't the strength of the motor of the wings but that Sam's hands remained uninjured. The intent was that the motor in the wings generated enough force to counter Rulk's strength.
4. Feats don't require validation from other feats unless they drastically contradict all other showings. The motor forcing the wings to cut Rulk doesn't need additional feats to justify it. If the wings weren't sharp as you claim, the motor would have required exponentially more force to achieve the same effect, making the Steen the motor even more impressive.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
^1. Is Namor's spear not sharp ?!
2 Are Rulk's bones substantially harder than Vibranium ?!
3. Is Namor not substantially stronger than the motor in Sam's wings?!
4. Do you just IGNORE Director's intentions on implied strength when it suits you? Do you prefer to make up your own writer's intention?
1. It's sharp IMO. No one is arguing otherwise. We were referring to the wings.
2. Not necessarily, but they can be peers.
3. He isn't
4. There was no intentions in the plot of the movie that Namor is as strong as Hulk. I gave valid reasons why post interviews on "whose stronger" is not valid or Canon.
Originally posted by h1a8As for outside statements and interviews:
1. A writer's opinion can change AFTER a film is completed, or they might even LIE (they're human) to promote a movie.2. A producer of one film doesn't have artistic control over a character from another film, produced by someone else. Feige could very well believe Hulk is significantly stronger than Namor.
3. Statements mean nothing when they contradict on-screen showings, even if those statements come from within the movie itself.
4. "MOVIE FEATS ONLY!" - that's the rule here.
Originally posted by h1a8
3. He isn't
LMAO
Originally posted by h1a8
4. There was no intentions in the plot of the movie that Namor is as strong as Hulk. I gave valid reasons why post interviews on "whose stronger" is not valid or Canon.
Not only was it stated by the director, but also mentioned in the film. So that's clearly the writer's intention.
Your opinion is what's not canon.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
LMAONot only was it stated by the director, but also mentioned in the film. So that's clearly the writer's intention.
Your opinion is what's not canon.
Good. It was addressed in the interview (commentary), not in the actual film. The commentary was created after the film was.
Now address the 1st point. Then point 2. And then point 3.
Originally posted by FrothByteHe didn't lose to Falcon - he just calmed down and chose not to kill him.
Rulk should win this on paper, but on screen if he lost to Falcon then I don't see him winning against Namor without any kind of water-restriction for Namor.
Everyone agrees Namor wins with the spear. Personally, I've got him taking it 6/10
I wanna know why H1 is stuck up on Namor stabbing Rulk in the skull. All of his organs are in the same place as a human, and just like Hulk, he hasn't shown a significant healing factor like Ang Lee Hulk. He can be stabbed in the heart or plenty of other places to mess him up and slow him down.
Also what everybody else has said ad infinitum and h1 has ignored because it's not what he wants.
Originally posted by Robtard
I initially said Namor wins via spear through the head, but yes, spear through the heart would be an insta-kill too.
Originally posted by h1a8As for outside statements and interviews:
1. A writer's opinion can change AFTER a film is completed, or they might even LIE (they're human) to promote a movie.2. A producer of one film doesn't have artistic control over a character from another film, produced by someone else. Feige could very well believe Hulk is significantly stronger than Namor.
3. Statements mean nothing when they contradict on-screen showings, even if those statements come from within the movie itself.
4. "MOVIE FEATS ONLY!" - that's the rule here.
I guarantee that you and Robtard will troll, ignore every point I made, and just repeat your argument with slightly different wording.
That tells me two things:
1. My argument is too strong to be easily refuted.
2. I've already won the debate.
Originally posted by KingD19
I wanna know why H1 is stuck up on Namor stabbing Rulk in the skull. All of his organs are in the same place as a human, and just like Hulk, he hasn't shown a significant healing factor like Ang Lee Hulk. He can be stabbed in the heart or plenty of other places to mess him up and slow him down.Also what everybody else has said ad infinitum and h1 has ignored because it's not what he wants.
That's why I said Namor will win 6/10. The thread was derailed by BS claims that Namor can stab through Rulk's skull and that Namor is as strong as the Hulk.
Note: Rulk can win 4/10 due to Rulk sometimes being able to beat the shit out of Namor without Namor being allowed to land a vital strike.
Originally posted by Robtard
Funny thing is you actually think you're clever there. My argument never changed, I think Namor wins via spear through the head, but I also agree with KingD that a spear through the heart will be just as effective.
But you haven't proven that Namor can stab Rulk through the skull. You are only assuming it.
Also, do you think that Namor can stab through Cap's shield (1 attempt)?
Originally posted by tkitna
Good question, but if Panthers claws could actually scratch it, I would think a character with a sharp, purer form of vibranium and immense strength should be able to stab through it.
BP's claws didn't scratch the shield itself - they only scratched the outer coating. I just rewatched the scene in slow motion, and there was absolutely no damage to the shield.
It would be unreasonable to believe Namor could stab through Cap's shield in a single strike when Thor and Rulk, using all their might with Mjolnir, couldn't even dent it.