Best evidence that Neo's phone call happens at the end of Revolutions.......

Of course there is free will in the Matrix films- that is the point. Only the Merovingian is coming at it from a pre-ordained angle. If there was no free will there would be NO choices- whether you had already made them or not.

The only things being predicted are those things whose outcomes have ALREADY been decided by choices made. But there is free will and choice being exercised in the Matrix all the time.

The Oracle in EtM says that there are so many unknown factors that she cannot see what is to come- and what can these unknown things be, except what people chose to do? She even talks about how people will have to choose to help make the Path of the One.

Choice is endemic to the Matrix films as presented- do not let the Merovingian's 'bullshit' fool you.

I personally doubt this idea that the phone call in the original is after the two sequels. And I think that phone call being on the Architect's screen does indeed rule it out from being so, as the Architect was only predciting choice-created certainites (like the coming Trinity fight), and what was going to happen with the One was, again, NOT certain, as the Oracle in EtM makes clear.

Not impossible, but unlikely.

Originally posted by FLIPMODE
Well at one point he was like everyone else, and followed free will.

He's reaching the level of the oracle, but not quite. I think we'll see by the time this is done, he'll be talking and acting like the oracle.

lol Always smiling, eating candy...baking cockies 😛 and saying BINGO! 😂 jk

At the end of Revolutions Neo fights off various Smiths.He tells him there is no way he can save Zion since he has alredy begun a trace program in order for the machines to enter Zion.Basiclly Neo afterwards begins to have Deja Vu and starts to see himself failing to save Zion.I will leave that to u all...... "I can feel you I know you are out there;you are afraid,afraid of change"(Neo)

Originally posted by Matrixrabbit62
At the end of Revolutions Neo fights off various Smiths.He tells him there is no way he can save Zion since he has alredy begun a trace program in order for the machines to enter Zion.Basiclly Neo afterwards begins to have Deja Vu and starts to see himself failing to save Zion.I will leave that to u all...... "I can feel you I know you are out there;you are afraid,afraid of change"(Neo)

😑 Ok...

matrixrabbit, that's completely absurd ❌

i know we've discussed this before, but someone refresh me --

what about the line in neo's m1 phone call when he says (roughly), "where we go from here is a choice i leave to you"?

if you support this whole phone call theory, you could argue that neo, at that point, is finally starting to catch on to everything the oracle and architect were talking about in m2 (admit it, he looked confused during those speeches), summing up this trilogy's apparent motif of choices.

then again, if the phone call is only at the end of m1 and the theory is bunk, you could just chalk it up to foreshadowing.

any takers on this detail, or is it too irrelevant?

that would make sense, but that would be really weird

i dont see why it matters. if it is at the end of revolutions we are gonna say "hm, wow that was in M1." thats it.

I weep for your lack of understanding stovenuts.

Originally posted by Evil Dead
I'll take Keanu's word for it........he probably knows what he's talking about.

of coarse he does!! 😄

I just found something out. When on hacking the time is 13:03 the call happens at 14:32. But when does hacking take place, is it the start of the game, mid game, end of game, end of film when. Without knowing this we can't determine when the phone call happens.

people are taking this too far

Reloaded does not end on September 18th 1999. Enter the Matrix starts on that date.

Chojin has a good point. And, what… oh, so now we have moved the end of M1 to be sometime IN Revolutions? It can’t be.

Evil Dead>
End date of The Matrix: September 18th 1999.
Start of EtM: September 18th 1999.
Start of The Matrix Reloaded: At the best VERY late on September 18th 1999. After the beginning where Neo wakes, the crew meets the other captains they return to Zion and party at night. That would be September 19th 1999. When Neo and Trin wakes up with the message from the Oracle it is September 20th 1999.
Matrix Reloaded ends on the evening of September 20th 1999.

The phone-call CAN take place just before the beginning of Reloaded, because the Kid has nothing to do with this. Recall, if you like, one thing: Just before the famed phone-call, the scene exactly prior to that, is Neo being resurrected. Some time apparently has gone by from Neo beating death and the phone-call. Otherwise the action in The Matrix would span more than a year.
So more than likely THIS is the scenario: Neo is resurrected in M1 sometime in March 1999. Then six months passes and we see the phone-call, since he must’ve had time to figure out how to, say, fly. Morpheus use the freed mind during the past six months as an argument to prove that Neo is the One who will end the war.

not exactly, stovenutts. i just read an interview with the w.bros that sifer (i think) linked to. someone asked how many little hidden things the w.bros had in the movie. they answered, "more than you'll ever know."

Hrmmm I thought that the hacking in the game takes place after the game? Just what I thought anyway 🙂

All right. I'm new in this thread, but please, don't tak me lightly. I have read through all of your replies and had some very interesting answers. I think that it would be "cool" and "clevor", if i do say so myself, if the end of Revolutions is in actuality the end of the first Matrix. But, unfortunitly, I believe that it is not. It's a good theroy. And I like how you guys are staying on top of it.. well maybe not Stovenutts.. but thats besides the point.. If it was truly the end... wait a second.. you know what.. It really could be the end of Revolutions. Tell me Sifer.. how did you come up with this theroy?

Wait. Don't you that the Wachowski bros have something a little better up there sleeve? And what about in The Matrix Revolutions trailor where Neo says.. "It ends tonight."

The end of Revolutions will not be the end of the story..................the story of the Matrix will continue to be told in comics, books, video games, anime cartoons, etc...........Revolutions will simply be the end to Neo/Trinity/Morpheus story............the Matrix will still exist and there will be countless more stories to take place inside of it......

My only problem with Reloaded starting September 18th... is that the kid is taken back to Zion at some point after The Matrix (when he is 'saved'😉 and before Reloaded ('cause he's waiting for Neo)... so unless Michael (the kid) recovered super-duper-quickly... and how did they find his body in the battery-plants? Had he taken the red pill?

~AI

Originally posted by Ikobe
My only problem with Reloaded starting September 18th... is that the kid is taken back to Zion at some point after The Matrix (when he is 'saved'😉 and before Reloaded ('cause he's waiting for Neo)... so unless Michael (the kid) recovered super-duper-quickly... and how did they find his body in the battery-plants? Had he taken the red pill?

~AI

He didn't take the pill. But I don't know how they found him. They could have returned home after they found him.