I once touched upon this topic with Rage and zop and I think its something worth discussing in detail...
In comics (both in Marvel and DC) you have characters performing feats that are far beyond what they really should be accomplishing (IMHO of course)...as a result, I fully believe dam near every aspect of both DC and Marvel comics need to retconned.
Now assumming that it was up to you, how would you rebalance everything so that there is atleast some logic and consistency in the type of feats various characters are able to perform?
I'll go 1st to give an example of what I am asking for:
Street Level
Low: Can beat up the weak and the Elderly...or a normal person that is physically impared in some way; may be grossly out of shape and slow for example.
Mid: Can beat up common crooks/thugs.
High: Can beat up a very skilled and physically powerful opponent...Brock Lesnar for example.
Enhanced
Low: Can defeat scores of normal humans without much effort.
Mid: Can go crazy and wreck vehicles and small buildings one after another.
High: Can wreck large buildings and devastate city blocks.
Herald
Low: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with the Martian Moon Deimos (12km diameter).
Mid: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with the Martian Moon Phobos (22km diameter).
High: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with the Saturn Moon Siarnaq (32km diameter).
Trans
Low: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with the Saturn Moon Dione (1120km diameter).
Mid: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with the Neptune Moon Triton (2706km diameter).
High: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with the Jupiter Moon Io (3636km diameter).
Skyfather
Low: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with a small planet; Mars (6800km diameter).
Mid: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with a medium sized planet; Earth (12756km diameter).
High: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with a large planet; Neptune (49500km diameter).
Elder God
Low: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with a gas giant; Saturn (120536km diameter).
Mid: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with a small star; Red Dwarf (210000km diameter).
High: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with an average star; Our Sun (1390000km diameter).
Cube Being
Low: Can reality warp several solar systems at will.
Mid: Can reality warp dozens of solar systems at will.
High: Can reality warp a small pocket dimension at will.
Abstract/High Powered Cosmic
Low: Can bust a Galaxy.
Mid: Can bust a Galactic Cluster.
High: Can bust a Super Cluster.
God Tier
Low: Can wreck havok on a universal scale at will.
Mid: Can destroy a universe, but not all at once.
High: Can 1 shot an entire universe.
Dam that took alot of time (prays this doesnt get locked; I put alot of effort into this)....
Anyway, again, how would you all rebalance the comic book tiers/power levels if it were up to you?
I mean at current you have Skyfathers threatening reality and busting galaxies as a side effect of their battles...you have cube beings reality warping an entire (resisting!) universe...high heralds busting planets.
I honestly think things are very jacked up as they currently are...
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Last edited by TheLordofMurder on Dec 14th, 2010 at 02:34 AM
Skyfathers are (or rather should be...IMHO of course) planetary level Gods...
So yeah, being able to manipulate matter/energy on a planetary scale makes perfect sense IMHO; it makes alot more sense than an Earth level god busting galaxies as a side effect of his battles...
I would retcon everyone in both Marvel and DC Comics; the Hulk would NEVER become strong enough to bust a planet if it were up to me; he'd be busting a Deimos or Phobos sized object max (which would be an incredible feat btw; such objects weigh billions of tons)...
And I would have bashed Supermans brains in with the "nerf" bat a long, long, time ago as well...
My goal with the revamping of the tiers is to inject "some" logic into comics and not have everyone going overboard with feats...
Going overboard with feats leads to an inflation effect...and that is exactly why we have such insane feats such as a Cube Being warping an entire universe and Skyfathers busting galaxies as a side effect of their battles.
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Last edited by TheLordofMurder on Dec 14th, 2010 at 03:00 AM
Hell, Surter (a Skyfather) busted a galaxy as a result of forging his sword...Twilight.
Thats stupid (have any of these writers ever heard of 'suspension of disbelief' before!??) in the extreme and thats the sort of thing my revamping of the tiers prevents...
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Last edited by TheLordofMurder on Dec 14th, 2010 at 03:05 AM
Honestly I think your tiers need a lot of work, you jump in power far to quickly. Many of marvels characters and most popular to boot fall under the enhanced area which is far to small and broad.
I agree with this and it has been a WHILE since a high herald actually busted a planet. Those types of feats just doesn't exist anymore and I'm referring to a normal size planet.
Currently, I think you have to be at least a trans level being to destroy a planet and that could still be pushing it since well, it seems like they did a power level drop on almost every popular or known character.
I was gonna leave this closed but a lot of effort went into making the thread. I'll check this tomorrow and if things are on topic with no arguing, flaming, trolling, spamming, etc then maybe we can leave it open for a while.
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Last edited by Badabing on Dec 14th, 2010 at 04:40 AM
I think snowbird is more of one of those characters designed to do such things more than anything else. A case of rock paper scissors if you will. Similar to how batman has no business beating superman in a fist fight only to reveal he had a set of kryptonite brass knuckles hidden under his gloves.
If anyone from Marvel/DC reads these forums, I hope they take a good look at this list. IMHO, you have WAAAY to many extreme level feats out in comics nowadays. It becomes so bad, each new storyline has to "one up" the previous one and it just winds up becoming moronic.
You have human beings, mutantsn affecting reality on an OMNIversal scale! The freaking LT, supposedly the second in command at MU, is only MULTIversal. How is this possible?
You have earth based deities : wrecking galaxies, shaking the universe/multiverse, and affecting all planes of existence when they clash.
Keep in mind godlike abstractions haven't been shown doing anything that level EVER.
I sound like a broken record but as proof I give you :
Odin/Seth fighting (mutliverse shaking, etc...)
Eric Masterson THor/Dargo Thor fighting (universe shaking)
Vulcan/Black Bolt fighting (destroying PARSECS long stretches of space!)
Surtur forging his sword (destroying a galaxy to forge a sword)
Hulk (thunderclapping and destroying a dimension!)
Wanda Maximoff throwing a *** fit (rearranging the OMNIverse)
Mad Jim Jaspers (destroying universes like sand castles and threatening the OMNIverse)
Franklin Richards (universe level psionic power)
Jammie Braddock (universe, at least, level reality warping power)
I'm sure I'm missing others but you get my drift. Where has the Living Tribunal, Galactus, Order/Chaos, Death, Eternity, etc.. been shown doing half that?
I understand also that it's just a comic, but when you have humans affecting the OMNIverse, then how are abstracts supposed to compete? THere's nothing greater than an OMNIverse so what's left for them to do?
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Everything that I'm saying is coming directly from on panel showings... on panel.
Wolverine enhanced (low)
Spiderman enhanced (low)
Sabertooth enhanced (low)
Black panther enhanced (low)
Captain america enhanced (low)
Midnighter enhanced (low)
Batman enhanced (low)
Lady shiva enhanced (low)
Deathstroke enhanced (low)
Enhanced high
Blue marvel
Wonder woman
Power girl
None confidense sentry
Supergirl
Martian manhunter
Orion (rage could boost him to low herald)
Low herald
Thor. (Versatility could move him up to mid)
Superman (versatility could move him up to mid)
Firelord
Hulk
Juggernaut
Konvikt
Magneto
Nate grey (versatilty could potentially move him up to mid)
Black adam
Gladiator
Captain marvel
Sentry (confident)
Beta ray bill
Can't think of any mids... will edit my post.
High Herald (I know some of these peoplecan beat the other but I am basing this off of pure power... not on a "who can win bases")
Surfer
Power Gem Drax
Champion with the gem or bands
Thanos (potentially low trans)
Void
Hal (could have sworn that I have seen him wreck small planets)
I will do the rest later... just using the main characters.
Basically, you're suggesting we just make everything up and discard on-panel showings in order to conform to this arbitrarily selected list of standards?
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Dec 14th, 2010 02:21 AM
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