Syn vs Urs: Galen vs Anakin

-This is an debate between Syn and me. Please, do not nterrupt the debate.
I think that posting opinions is okay(if Syn don´t disagree), tho.
-We don´t have an finish time for this debate, or an deadline for replies, as we both(I suppose this in Syns case, tbh) haven´t many time (next week).

*All-Out
*Legends only
*Galen hasn´t his Starkiller feats
*Both at their absolute Peak; but Anakin isn´t in the Zone, and Galen not in Oneness
*Fight takes Place on board of the invisible Hand
*Starting distance is 8m
*In Character, but both are willing to kill

@Syn Will you start? Or shall I? If former, please PM me first, so that I know 🙂

You can go ahead Urs. Show me what you got boi. 🙂

T4V

vag for totes

Loser will have to jump off of a bridge.

*Note: All Quotes or Picturs are from Myths RT, as I eiter don´t have the source, or just in german.
So, it probably won´t be so long. Still:

Physicals:
I see no reason, why Galen should be faster than Anakin.
Skywalker is implied to be faster than Dooku, and -less impressive- Ventress.
He is stronger than Ventress, and even Dooku, by an more than fair marigin. He also has nearly broken Obi-Wan´s bones, while hindered(Well, technically it was Vader, but I don´t see an reason, why Anakin shouldn´t be able to accomplish that.)
IIRC his Lightsaber Blow against Ventress shattered stone.

Skywalker was all over him. The shining blue lightsaber whirled and spat and every overhand chop crashed against Dooku's defense with the unstoppable power of a meteor strike; the Sith Lord spent lavishly of his reserve of the Force merely to meet these attacks without being cut in half, and Skywalker—Skywalker was getting stronger. Source: Revenge of the Sith
While I think that Galen has insane Durability and enduance, Anakin is the Guy who survived without limbs, near an lava flow. And partly being burned. Oh, and did I say that his first reaction was not screaming in Pain, but "I hate you?".

Anakin is also more skilled. He has beaten Ventress several times, pre-prime; with more-or-less-ease. He also manhandled Cin Drallig, has beaten several Magnaguards(IIRC), has sparred evenly with Obi-Wan, and has statlemated Obi-Wan while being hindered. His best feat is, tho, beating Tyrannus. Since Anakin was trying, he had the upper hand against him, and he would´ve beaten him. The Rage just let this happen faster.

Telekinetically he has Force Pushed Durge and Dooku, has dominated Ventress, has manipulated an Giant Spider Droid and he has moved Dreadnoughts and Hut-sized objects pre-prime. He also had an pretty immense Force Scream showwing, IIRC he has damaged an hangar, or something like that.

If you could provide the quotes where it's implied that Anakin is faster then either Dooku or Ventress that'd be much appreciated. As for Galen's speed he's been implied to be faster then Vader with the novel describing Vader and Galen in the following manner.

"Where Vader was strong and relentless, he was fast and sly." - The Force Unleashed.

Vader far before his prime was stated by Ferus to have moved faster then anyone he'd ever seen sans Yoda which would include the Council members who regularly sparred as demonstrations in lightsaber combat for the Padawans.

While Anakin's physical strength is indeed impressive none of his feats exceed Vader's own and Galen after an initial adjustment was able to deal with Vader's physical strength just fine.

Galen's endurance feats are unquestionably superior having fought through entire armies under unideal circumstances far before his prime.

In regards to durability Galen's physical body has been boosted to superhuman levels after he was rebuilt. This was demonstrated when he survived being hit by a multiple ton stone table that had enough momentum behind it to smash through several stone pillars and then recover from the injury hours later. He also goes on to withstand Palpatine's Lightning even moving forward against it despite the novel describing the pain in the following manner.

"The pain was incredible, searing every nerve back to its individual cells, skewering each of them on white-hot needles." - The Force Unleashed.

While Anakin's pain tolerance is also incredible and his ability to keep himself alive is impressive, Galen's physical body is just stronger having been rebuilt by Vader.

I'd ask you to present your individual examples in regards to Ventress. Certainly he beat her in their first engagement prior to Ventress receiving any Sith training but then Ventress gets the better of him in their next encounter when she gives him his scar.

Throughout the Clone Wars Ventress and Anakin face each other many times with different results each time. Often Ventress would duel Anakin and Obi Wan simultaneously. It was such a common occurrence that the three would banter with each other during the fight. So again, you're going to have to bring up the specific examples you're referring to.

Cin Drallig has no impressive feats to his name, only his title. To put it into perspective let me give you an example. Despite Coleman Trebor being a member of the Jedi High Council would you say he's all that impressive considering he was gunned down by Jango in less then 3 shots?

As I'm sure you're aware the type of magnaguards Anakin faced is relevant considering Ahsoka just days after becoming a Padawan was capable of defeating 3 at once.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HK5uHVzHp38

Defeating an opponent who you are more powerful then does not place a you as their equal in regards to technical skill. Being more powerful grants you greater augmentation, precognition and reflexes which negates the need to be their superior in skill which imo is the case in regards to Skywalker and Kenobi.

Granted Anakin was Dooku's superior but this is due to two very important factors. Anakin's form advantage and Anakin's physical and youth advantages. The text specifically makes note that Dooku's Makashi is unable to generate the kinetic force nessecary to meet Djem So head on. This is compounded by Anakin's astounding physical strength. It's made clear that Dooku is Anakin's superior in regards to technical skill as we see when Anakin and Obi Wan are assuming the Ataru and Shii Cho forms respectively in an effort to lull Dooku and catch him off guard. Anakin is growing frustrated during the fight as Dooku casually deals with the both of them. Granted it makes sense that Anakin and Obi Wan would be more skilled in their main forms but it gives you an idea of how much of a part Anakin's physical strength and form advantage played in his duel against the Count.

As for the Force this category falls firmly in Galen's favor. The best showings in Anakin's corner are manipulating a dreadnought pre prime which he needed extreme focus to do, collapsing a dome after becoming enraged and landing a push on Dooku.

Galen's casual pushes are capable of sending hundreds of droids flying out of a room and his continuous blasts caused an artificial hurricanes and ground-quake. All pre prime of course.

Looking at their comparative showings Galen guiding down an Imperial Star Destroyer with concentration by far exceeds Anakin's dreadnought feat.

What Anakin needed rage to accomplish Galen does as a way of testing his capabilities. Galen collapses the supports of an orbital superstructure on Kashyyyk with a pure expression of the Force and buckles a dock with a single push on Nar Shaddaa.

Anakin pushing Dooku? Galen dominated Vader in a force grip before proceeding to blast Sidious into his own ceiling.

I'm sorry friend, but in this category at least, the two are not comparable.

So to summarize. Galen has an answer for everything Anakin can dish out having dealt with and overcome it before upon facing a more experienced and arguably more powerful incarnation ala Vader.

This isn't even mentioning the fact that Galen has sparred a program of Anakin enough times that he recognizes him on site. Is would mean that Galen would have intimate knowledge on Anakin's form and fighting style.

Man, what a rush. I'm glad we agreed to this debate Urs. 🙂

I am too.
I am half-finished with my response, after eating I'll end this.
Sorry that I don't have so many quotes, I am trying rhrough the week to find some, then 🙂

No problem. Take your time. This should be a slow burn. 🙂

T4V

Syn is gonna kill this newbie.

Anakin destroys.

But does Urs? 🙂

If he's not intimidated by your wall of text and takes it line by line, yeah.

We'll just have to see I suppose. 🙂

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
If he's not intimidated by your wall of text and takes it line by line, yeah.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
If you could provide the quotes where it's implied that Anakin is faster than either Dooku or Ventress that'd be much appreciated. As for Galen's speed he's been implied to be faster than Vader with the novel describing Vader and Galen in the following manner.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova

"Where Vader was strong and relentless, he was fast and sly." - The Force Unleashed.

Vader far before his prime was stated by Ferus to have moved faster then anyone he'd ever seen sans Yoda which would include the Council members who regularly sparred as demonstrations in lightsaber combat for the Padawans.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova

While Anakin's physical strength is indeed impressive none of his feats exceed Vader's own and Galen after an initial adjustment was able to deal with Vader's physical strength just fine.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova

Galen's endurance feats are unquestionably superior having fought through entire armies under unideal circumstances far before his prime.

In regards to durability Galen's physical body has been boosted to superhuman levels after he was rebuilt. This was demonstrated when he survived being hit by a multiple ton stone table that had enough momentum behind it to smash through several stone pillars and then recover from the injury hours later. He also goes on to withstand Palpatine's Lightning even moving forward against it despite the novel describing the pain in the following manner.

"The pain was incredible, searing every nerve back to its individual cells, skewering each of them on white-hot needles." - The Force Unleashed.

While Anakin's pain tolerance is incredibly and his ability to keep himself alive is impressive, Galen's physical body is just stronger having been rebuilt by Vader.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova

I'd ask you to present your individual examples in regards to Ventress. Certainly he beat her in their first engagement prior to Ventress receiving any Sith training but then Ventress gets the better of him in their next encounter when she gives him his scar.

Throughout the Clone Wars Ventress and Anakin face each other many times with different results each time. Often Ventress would duel Anakin and Obi Wan simultaneously. It was such a common occurrence that the three would banter with each other during the fight. So again, you're going to have to bring up the specific examples you're referring to.

Chin Drallig has no impressive feats to his name, only his title. To put it into perspective let me give you an example. Despite Coleman Trebor being a member of the Jedi High Council would you say he's all that impressive considering he was gunned down by Jango in less then 3 shots?

As I'm sure you're aware the type of magnaguards Anakin faced is relevant considering Ahsoka just days after becoming a Padawan was capable of defeating 3 at once.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HK5uHVzHp38

Finally. WTF has happen?

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova

Defeating an opponent who you are more powerful then does not place a you as their equal in regards to technical skill. Being more powerful grants you greater augmentation, precognition and reflexes which negates the need to be their superior in skill which is the case in regards to Skywalker and Kenobi.

Granted Anakin was Dooku's superior but this is due to two very important factors. Anakin's form advantage and Anakin's physical and youth advantages. The text specifically makes note that Dooku's Makashi is unable to generate the kinetic force nessecary to meet Djem So head on. This is compounded by Anakin's astounding physical strength. It's made clear that Dooku is Anakin's superior in regards to technical skill as we see when Anakin and Obi Wan are assuming the Ataru and Shii Cho forms respectively in an effort to lull Dooku and catch him off guard. Anakin is growing frustrated during the fight as Dooku casually deals with the both of them. Granted it makes sense that Anakin and Obi Wan would be more skilled in their main forms but it gives you an idea of how much of a part Anakin's physical strength and form advantage played in his duel against the Count.

C`mon, the Form and Strenght Advantage are heavily overblown.
Why didn´t Dooku has beaten Yoda, then? Why didn´t Kenobi beat Anakin then?
Especially latter: If Obi-Wan can only win through an Cheap Shot, then must Anakin, while heavily hindered, being more skilled than Obi-Wan 👆
Also, Dooku stomped Obi-Wan in physical Combat, and matched Grievous blows easily. If it is the Strenght Advantage, that gave Anakin the win, then he must be far more stronger than either of them. If so, he is far stronger than Vader, and Galen doesn´t stand a Chance 🙂 Again, give me feats of Galens strenght that match Dooku 🙂

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova

As for the Force this category falls firmly in Galen's favor. The best showings in Anakin's corner are manipulating a dreadnought pre prime which he needed extreme focus to do, collapsing a dome after becoming enraged and landing a push on Dooku.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova

Galen's casual pushes are capable of sending hundreds of droids flying out of a room and his continuous blasts cause artificial hurricanes and ground quakes. All pre prime of course.

Looking at their comparative showings Galen guiding down an Imperial Star Destroyer with concentration by far exceeds Anakin's dreadnought feat.

What Anakin needed rage to accomplish Galen does as a way of testing his capabilities. Galen collapses the supports of an orbital superstructure on Kashyyyk with a pure expression of the Force and buckles a dock with a single push on Nar Shaddaa.

Anakin pushing Dooku? Galen dominated Vader in a force grip before proceeding to blast Sidious into his own ceiling.

Wanna see that too.

No rage, like I said.

Wanna see also the Vader feats. And arguments, why Sidious isn´t just toying.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova

I'm sorry friend, but in this category at least, the two are not comparable.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova

So to summarize. Galen has an answer for everything Anakin can dish out having dealt with and overcome it before upon facing a more experienced and arguably more powerful incarnation ala Vader.

This isn't even mentioning the fact that Galen has sparred a program of Anakin enough times that he recognizes him on site. Is would mean that Galen would have intimate knowledge on Anakin's form and fighting style.

Anakin Skywalker wins 10/10 🙂

Sadly, not really. He was always an step before Dooku, in their Battle, and he had his Lightsaber on his Throath, before Dooku could react. I have this, to(thanks Myth): http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...u+and+asajj.png http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...kin+acrobat.png http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...u+and+asajj.png
Edit: Thanks again Myth: He retreated up them, using the higher ground for leverage, but Skywalker just kept on coming, tirelessly ferocious.
That blue blade was everywhere, flashing and whirling faster and faster until Dooku saw the room through an electric haz-RotS novel

Dooku being pressed by Anakin's offensive doesn't indicate superiority in speed. Obi Wan was moving his blade at such velocities Dooku did not dare try to pierce his defense before he could regain his bearings. If your argument is based off of Dooku seeing Anakin's lightsaber as a blue haze I'll remind you that Force users do not fight with their physical perceptions in accelerated combat but through their senses in the Force. It's rather unlikely that Obi Wan was capable of visually perceiving the thousands of blaster bolts he deflected on Utapu but he was capable of knowing where they'd be through the Force and then moving his hands and arms fast enough to deflect them. As for the scan you provided Anakin moving quickly enough to jump out a window and keep from being hit doesn't demonstrate superior speed if he already has distance between himself and his pursuers.

Wasn´t it even implied, that Olin wasn´t able to see Vader? And he saw sparring matches, not real ones. Save for Fisto and Kenobi, I can´t recall impressive Speed feats, from the Council Members of Olin´s time :/ Also, TFU is also pre-prime of Vader.

As I mention above Force users don't need to physically see an object to perceive it in the Force. Also, considering how Yoda faced 3 Council Members; Depa Billaba, Saesee Tiin and Plo Koon, unarmed, and defeated them as a demonstration for the padawans despite the group's best efforts.

"She had attended a lecture about battle techniques given by Master Yoda earlier this year, and the memory of it came back to her now. Yoda had faced the assembled students and spoken, his thin reedy voice somehow carrying to the far corners of the lecture hall without benefit of amplifiers. "Better than training, the Force is. More than experience or speed it gives." And he had given a demonstration. Three members of the council—Plo Koon, Saesee Tiin, and Depa Billaba, excellent fighters all—had come forward and attacked him. Master Yoda had not been armed, and had not seemed to move more than a meter or so, his tread slow and measured. Nevertheless, none of the three had been able to lay a finger on him." - Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter.

There's no reason for anybody giving a demonstration to not full demonstrate their speed. In fact they might even move faster knowing it's just a spar and that they don't have to conserve their energies for prolonged battle. The Council of Olin's time was much the same as the Clone Wars council with only a few differences. Ferus Olin observes Vader before TFU. So technically Vader should be even faster. Thank you for proving my point.

Never said that it would be significant. But what feats has TFU Vader, in physical strenght, suggest that he is over Anakin? BTW, here is an Gif(Credit to Sirfizwhiz): http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...gth+%281%29.gif

I didn't say that Vader was superior to Anakin simply that Anakin wasn't physically stronger then Vader.

Shattering a crystaline pillar by straining against it.

http://static9.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11115/111155790/3919133-7319964808-21391.jpg

Shattering a stone pillar by slamming a sentient into it.

http://static6.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11115/111155790/5028665-9289799003-50282.jpg

Ripping off a durasteel door.

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11115/111155790/3919134-2169209508-21391.jpg

Leaves a crater in a dursasteel table with a punch.

http://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11115/111155790/3926385-8389315339-33344.jpg

Being unmoved by the weight of 12 fully armored stormtroopers.

"The energy beams didn't slow him down, though. Eppon picked up another trooper as though he weighed nothing, and hurled the armored soldier at the rest of the troop. The stormtroopers stumbled backward in a clatter of armor, crashing into Vader. The weight of a dozen men was not enough to move the Dark Lord, but the confusion caused by the troopers gave Gog an opening." - Galaxy Of Fear: Army Of Terror.

Endurance? Maybe. But I ain´t see durability in Galens favor. Anakin fights after being hit by an tree log, which was TKed by Ventress. Purge smashes him through a Steel bulldeck-Skywalker keep fighting.
quote: (post)

Can you post the scan of Durge smashing Anakin through a steel floor please?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VB_vjVxcic
Cin Drallig has some very good accolades from Dooku. Has Trebor any good accolades?
Hmm, I said legends only. Didn´t I tell you that? If so, sorry. Show me an occurence in Legends please, in which Ventress statlemated one, or even both.

Trebor was praised by Cin but it was in a moment where he was lecturing Grievous for his moves being too mechanical. We don't know what this would mean in regards to Cin's combative capabilities. Since Anakin has plenty of other solid feats it's simpler to scale him off of those. Also, the image I posted is from Legends though you did not specify that this was a Legends only debate. Regardless, I'm fine with those limitations.