Pre Ret Con Beyonder Vs. THe Presence

Originally posted by bigbran
Exploiting peoples weakness? Ya, I've never seen him do that either. 🙄

You argue for Dc characters so much, but I have never seen you present an arguement for Surfer. So would that mean you were his biggest fan, after you are DC's biggest fan? This is a put down? 🤨
Wouldn't it be even more insulting to call him an abstract?

In particular, DS avatars have shown Abstract level feats, or if you once again want to say im making things up just like Dominus or T-vo, or DS and Supes being multiversal Abstracts in importance that without them Existence will fall apart, then Check with Avalon or Juggs6 as he so nicely might post the scans (I dont have a scanner) of some of DS higher feats which are just his avatars, DS in true form is beyond his avatrs.

Originally posted by Jesse7
Do you want to hold past grudges, such as when you claimed T-vo wouldn't work on SS because he has shown resistance to "illusions" when Avalon has said and shown with scans that T-vo is not illusionary but is real, and when you argued that Dominus was not even at Abstract, when today the scans by Avalon have been posted showing that Dominus is multiversal?

Let go of past grudges and move on.

I've seen quite a few of Nvr's arguments, and so what if many argue against him? Quite a few have shown to be ignorant of Supes and or DS and or others feats, such as some claiming Supes died to DD when in fact he didn't die but went into cognito while he recovered, or that DS is not skyfather, when Avalon has posted that at the very least he is very high skyfather.

Also some people claiming that DS and Supes are not multiversal abstracts in importance, when again Scans have been posted as well as Avalon supporting DS and supes importance to the Source and all of existence itself.

Without DS, existence begins to fall apart.

As long as DS and Supers belong to the wrong company, people wll continue to go against the truth. But it was easy for EVERYONE to accept my explaination of Thor's strength in relation to the midgard serpent. Go figure. My logic is good enough for the marvel character, but not the DC ones.

Originally posted by Jesse7
Do you want to hold past grudges, such as when you claimed T-vo wouldn't work on SS because he has shown resistance to "illusions" when Avalon has said and shown with scans that T-vo is not illusionary but is real, and when you argued that Dominus was not even at Abstract, when today the scans by Avalon have been posted showing that Dominus is multiversal?

Let go of past grudges and move on.

Plus your using today's scans, compared to a month or 2 ago?

You seem wanting to bring up grudges. So what about what you said yesterday, about only coming into a thread to argue against me?
Or what about you insulting me a month or 2 ago, just because I proved wrong your statements in the PC Superman vs Surfer thread. Where also I said nowhere in that thing that Surfer would win?
I just seen something that was wrong.

Originally posted by Jesse7
Well from the fact that it took a large portion of the beyonders powers (which he could not get back) to destroy Marvel death, shows that the Beyonder does indeed have a limit of some sort, the Presence has shown none.

I do say that the presence is above the Beyonder purely because of the point made about the death feat.

He thought he couldn't bring her back, the misconception going around is, that it was an issue of power, but

Beyonder was examining the Fundamental Nature of the Multi-verse

"It'll take some preparation and detailing afterward...but I can do it...EASILY!

"Once it's done, it's FOREVER"

Nothing can die

Even ALL the power in the Multi-verse combined, can't kill a anything.

Beyonder realized that Death cannot be created when he checked the Fundamental Nature of the Multi-verse, but it was NOW he understood the Concept can only come into being by the Death of another


ONLY Beyonder was able to figure this out, ONLY Beyonder was able to Kill Dave, so that Death can arise anew (hence Re-Creating Death)

Even in real world religion, there was no Death, until Adam died, Death can be paused or erased, but Not created, because it is a concept.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
As long as DS and Supers belong to the wrong company, people wll continue to go against the truth. But it was easy for EVERYONE to accept my explaination of Thor's strength in relation to the midgard serpent. Go figure. My logic is good enough for the marvel character, but not the DC ones.

I didn't think about that before, but I did see parts of your argument for the serpent lifting feat, and some seemed much more accepting then say if you would have argued for supes or DS or Mxy, heh.

Originally posted by rotiart
God silver surfer refers to the 3 times where he attained eternity equivalent power....
1. LT embued.
2. What If? He attained the IG
3. He absorbed the Blackbody of Unilord and became the equivalent..

Keeper was not on Galactus's level...
Surfer has shown reality altering, time travelling, healing, planet destroying powers.

As for DS being Odin level.. In a sense yes, as they are both skyfathers..

but I would only put an avatar of DS on the same level as Odin. The "true DS" would be like Galactus level.

And I understand you might be passionate about your comics. But I don't think that most here are as marvel biased as you assume... IE. superman pretty much kills all his wannabes.. batman goes evenly with caps in a handto hand... hulk loses to doomsday...
You have your opinions, the others have theirs. You don't really have the right to act all high and mighty.. which is why I guess you rub me the wrong way.

NOw this is where you are wrong. I have stated a couple times that I thought Gladiator beats superman becuz he's a waaaaaay better fighter. I also do not think batman can beat cap hand to hand. Batman beats cap america cuz of his cunning and shadowy element and his bat belt of infinite power. Cap beats batman 8 days to sunday in pure hand to hand.

Originally posted by Mr Master
He thought he couldn't bring her back, the misconception going around is, that it was an issue of power, but

Beyonder was examining the Fundamental Nature of the Multi-verse

"It'll take some preparation and detailing afterward...but I can do it...EASILY!

"Once it's done, it's FOREVER"

Nothing can die

Even ALL the power in the Multi-verse combined, can't kill a anything.

Beyonder realized that Death cannot be created when he checked the Fundamental Nature of the Multi-verse, but it was NOW he understood the Concept can only come into being by the Death of another


ONLY Beyonder was able to figure this out, ONLY Beyonder was able to Kill Dave, so that Death can arise anew (hence Re-Creating Death)

Even in real world religion, there was no Death, until Adam died, Death can be paused or erased, but Not created, because it is a concept.

I do like that detail your post with scans and description rather then speculation, but I do have a question (not being rude or sarcastic, am serious) what about the scan that the beyonder stated that a large portion of his power was going into the cup and that he wouldn't be able to regain it back or un-do it. Even if it is not a matter of power, is still not the statement that the beyonder put a large ammount of his power into the comment implying that he does have some sort of limit, I just dont think the presence would need to use a large ammount of its total power to erase multiversal death.

Originally posted by Mr Master
He thought he couldn't bring her back, the misconception going around is, that it was an issue of power, but

Beyonder was examining the Fundamental Nature of the Multi-verse

"It'll take some preparation and detailing afterward...but I can do it...EASILY!

"Once it's done, it's FOREVER"

Nothing can die

Even ALL the power in the Multi-verse combined, can't kill a anything.

Beyonder realized that Death cannot be created when he checked the Fundamental Nature of the Multi-verse, but it was NOW he understood the Concept can only come into being by the Death of another


ONLY Beyonder was able to figure this out, ONLY Beyonder was able to Kill Dave, so that Death can arise anew (hence Re-Creating Death)

Even in real world religion, there was no Death, until Adam died, Death can be paused or erased, but Not created, because it is a concept.

And who is the supreme creator of allthings? including concepts? The presence. Just answer the question for me please. Does the beyonder fit into this equation? TOAA=PResence. IF you want to get technical, the presence is all that there is and was and will be. he has no concept of time. He sees things in a circular view. he created death the instant that he created life. it wasn't some unseen by product. he knew what he was doing when he made it.

Originally posted by Jesse7
In particular, DS avatars have shown Abstract level feats,

Originally posted by Jesse7
or if you once again want to say im making things up just like Dominus or T-vo,

Originally posted by Jesse7
or DS and Supes being multiversal Abstracts in importance that without them Existence will fall apart,

Originally posted by Jesse7
then Check with Avalon or Juggs6 as he so nicely might post the scans (I dont have a scanner)

Originally posted by Jesse7
of some of DS higher feats which are just his avatars, DS in true form is beyond his avatrs.

Originally posted by Jesse7
I do like that detail your post with scans and description rather then speculation, but I do have a question (not being rude or sarcastic, am serious) what about the scan that the beyonder stated that a large portion of his power was going into the cup and that he wouldn't be able to regain it back or un-do it. Even if it is not a matter of power, is still not the statement that the beyonder put a large ammount of his power into the comment implying that he does have some sort of limit, I just dont think the presence would need to use a large ammount of its total power to erase multiversal death.

Even "God" gave himself a mortal form... ie.. the bible.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
As long as DS and Supers belong to the wrong company, people wll continue to go against the truth. But it was easy for EVERYONE to accept my explaination of Thor's strength in relation to the midgard serpent. Go figure. My logic is good enough for the marvel character, but not the DC ones.

Originally posted by bigbran
And then Batdude disagreed with you, and I said Supes was stronger than Thor. Your so hard done by.

NO actually later on, bats conceded that I was quite possibly right. and then I also said that Superman is stillstronger than thor.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
NO actually later on, bats conceded that I was quite possibly right. and then I also said that Superman is stillstronger than thor.

Originally posted by rotiart
Even "God" gave himself a mortal form... ie.. the bible.

I noticed in my posted I had a typo toward the end, I meant to write "I Dont see the presence needing to use a large ammount of its power to erase multiversal death"

Originally posted by bigbran
You mean after batdude, said that real logic and comic books don't mix?

Did not most of the people who argue against me agree with me? Did they or did they not? And I used more than real world logic. I used what was said right in the scan. it said that Thor broke the creatures grip. I just put two and two together to make a valid argument.

Originally posted by Jesse7
what about the scan that the beyonder stated that a large portion of his power was going into the cup and that he wouldn't be able to regain it back or un-do it.

He's talking about Death, he Thought he did not have enough power to bring Death back

Evidently he was wrong,

This is why I said:

Beyonder = Presence in Power, Not Omniscience, (though Beyonder had a fair share).

Originally posted by Jesse7
Even if it is not a matter of power, is still not the statement that the beyonder put a large ammount of his power into the comment implying that he does have some sort of limit,

What I got from it is, it takes ALOT of power to erase Multi-Death in 1984, which is the equivalent to Omniversal Death in 2006

Originally posted by Jesse7
I just dont think the presence would need to use a large ammount of its total power to erase multiversal death.

We'll both keep waiting to see that one.

Originally posted by Jesse7
I noticed in my posted I had a typo toward the end, I meant to write "I Dont see the presence needing to use a large ammount of its power to erase multiversal death"

The presence does not have portions of power. Infinite Divided is still infinite. The LORD giveth and the lord taketh away. 🙂

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And who is the supreme creator of allthings? including concepts? The presence. Just answer the question for me please. Does the beyonder fit into this equation? TOAA=PResence. IF you want to get technical, the presence is all that there is and was and will be. he has no concept of time. He sees things in a circular view. he created death the instant that he created life. it wasn't some unseen by product. he knew what he was doing when he made it.

So does the Beyonder.

Beyonder created a Universe, and he was "the supreme creator of allthings, including concepts"

"the presence is all that there is and was and will be."

So is the Beyonder, but of a much Bigger Infinity.

"He sees things in a circular view. he created death the instant that he created life"

So did the Beyonder, and On Panel, unlike your kaka stories.

Originally posted by Mr Master
So does the Beyonder.

Beyonder created a Universe, and he was "the supreme creator of allthings, including concepts"

"the presence is all that there is and was and will be."

So is the Beyonder, but of a much Bigger Infinity.

"He sees things in a circular view. he created death the instant that he created life"

So did the Beyonder, and On Panel, unlike your kaka stories.

So answer the question. the PRESENCE and TOAA are equal. are you putting the beyonder on an even plain with them or above them?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The presence does not have portions of power. Infinite Divided is still infinite. The LORD giveth and the lord taketh away. 🙂

infinity can be any number you want... if you took the limit of a number n... where n approaches infinity... in the function 1/n... then as the number n becomes larger, the function itself becomes smaller, such that as n approaches infinity, the function approaches zero, you can therefore assume that if n was equal to infinity, that the limit of that number is zero.

So in that example... God has no power whatsoever. 😉