Originally posted by AuraAngel
No, Tobi pretty explicitly states that he wanted Sasuke to weaken them enough to capture them.
This isn't relevant anyways since this was before Tobi had his current arsenal. Had he had everything he has now, they would be dead.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Stopping a tree attack doesn't mean he can stop it all together. And saying feint and such doesn't really change the fact that Madara has the skill and power to make Naruto inhale the spores. And there isn't anything to suggest it is spammable either. Naruto seemed to have had a recharge period in order to go back into his strongest mode. Madara has no such weakness.
That does mean he can stop it. He did 😕 Those spores can be destroyed with a large FRS or spam cloned rasengans. Naruto has more than enough speed to get away from the spores and let his clones and FRS destroy them. The 5 minute time limit isn't permanent, and even with SM clones, he has the sensory and techs to hold out til he can re-enter KCM. Besides, for all we know, naruto's bijuudama may have enough power to break or severely weaken PS. This still doesn't prove that Madara is on another tier than current Naruto.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Well, Madara can stop all of those attacks dead in their tracks except maybe the Bijuu Bomb(if Petra path can absorb those, he'd be untouchable but that is unlikely.) As it stands, Madara has fought the Kyuubi before so he'd know how to handle Bijuu Bombs.
He can't stop speed clones and taijutsu. Not 100% of the time. If he absorbs, he is vulnerable to physical attack. If A and Tsu were fast enough to tag Madara, Naruto is definitely fast enough. Madara would have to go PS pretty early. As far as I know, he can't use paths and susano'o at the same time, so he is vulnerable one way or the other. To my knowledge, Madara never fully fought with Kurama. He has sharingan control of it, which is a big difference. The only two people that we have seen fight a bijuu solo on panel was the third Raikage and Minato iirc.
Originally posted by jinzin
Madara seems more than capable with his Sharingan. Which.... Has Tobi even used Rennigan? Meh. Seems to me that Madara is more adept with his techniques than Tobi is though Tobi's apparently only at half power so whatevs.Anyways...
How so? Nothing suggests that he can actually hit Tobi. Kakashi has sharingan, what has he done to Tobi solo? Even itachi's trap couldn't kill him. Short of S/T techs, you're gonna have a ridiculous time trying to connect an attack against tobi. Just look at naruto. All that power, but needed a S/T to actually hit Tobi. It's the only thing that Madara is lacking. If he has one, then eff it, he's god.
He has used rinnegan to control the jinchurikii. he hasn't used absorption but why would he? That would actually be a worse defense than Kamui. to absorb leaves you open to physical attack. Something you don't want to do against the speed and strength of 7 gates Gai and KCM Naruto. This goes for pretty much all the paths. One tech leaves you open for attack.
Oh FFS and I didn't even really want to argue.. but ooooookay.
Originally posted by socool8520Except for the fact that Naruto headbutt the shit out of him and the 4th planted him into the pavement. He's not untouchable, you just have to be crafty enough to figure out the "how" part... and in case you haven't noticed he can't just grab hold of someone who is also attacking him at the same time. Which... I'd love to know how he would intend to grab someone using Susanoo defense, and the Rennigan push/pull. 😐
How so? Nothing suggests that he can actually hit Tobi.
Originally posted by socool8520W-wait... are you implying Kakishi's Sharingan is on the same level as Madara? 🤨
Kakashi has sharingan, what has he done to Tobi solo?
Originally posted by socool8520
Even itachi's trap couldn't kill him.
Originally posted by socool8520
Short of S/T techs, you're gonna have a ridiculous time trying to connect an attack against tobi. Just look at naruto. All that power, but needed a S/T to actually hit Tobi. It's the only thing that Madara is lacking. If he has one, then eff it, he's god.
Originally posted by socool8520
He has used rinnegan to control the jinchurikii.
Originally posted by socool8520Guy isn't using the 7 gates right now. Wait, so using Rennigan is too risky? Is that your excuse for why he isn't using it? Cause, y'know... MADARA IS!
he hasn't used absorption but why would he? That would actually be a worse defense than Kamui. to absorb leaves you open to physical attack. Something you don't want to do against the speed and strength of 7 gates Gai and KCM Naruto. This goes for pretty much all the paths. One tech leaves you open for attack.
All I'm saying is, so far we've seen Madara be a WHOLE lot more impressive than Tobi casually fighting 5 Kage who Tobi noted needed to be subdued before he could capture them. Tobi, who has had his ass blown up or beaten up in almost every legitimate fight he's been in so far. Madara doesn't need to have S/T techniques to beat Tobi, he just has to be more competent than Torune and Fu in a 2 on 1 fight... or given what we've seen with the Kage fight, 6 on one. Not really sure that's a big stretch... 😐
Originally posted by jinzin
Oh FFS and I didn't even really want to argue.. but ooooookay.Except for the fact that Naruto headbutt the shit out of him and the 4th planted him into the pavement. He's not untouchable, you just have to be crafty enough to figure out the "how" part... and in case you haven't noticed he can't just grab hold of someone who is also attacking him at the same time. Which... I'd love to know how he would intend to grab someone using Susanoo defense, and the Rennigan push/pull. 😐
Not to mention, ET Madara is much more versatile thus far. It isn't anywhere even REMOTELY suggested that he would have to try and "hit" Tobi when he can spam all sorts of other attacks at range or battle him with genjustu instead.
I don't know who FFS is....but sure. Are you suggesting that Madara is faster than Naruto? I hope not. It's baseless. Not to mention that headbutt didn't do much. Also the 4th had S/T which again plays to my point so don't know why you brought it up, unless you are suggesting that madara is faster than Minato as well. There's no way in hell. Madara was tagged by Tsu and A. He is not as fast as naruto or Minato. Besides, since then, how many times has naruto connected without the aid of Kakashi's sharingan? Tobi also has control of 6 Bijuu which can help with the susano'o which so far, has only shown the durability to tank a dust release. 5 to 6 bijuudama>dust release imo. Tobi only has to get Madara out of susano'o for a moment. Would it be difficult? Sure, but out of his ability, I would say no. Also, just because Tobi hasn't used other paths doesn't mean he can't. Why would Nagato and madara be able to use them, but Tobi can't?
Originally posted by jinzin
W-wait... are you implying Kakishi's Sharingan is on the same level as Madara? 🤨
No, but besides Susano'o, what has Madara shown with his sharingan that Kakashi hasn't? Precog and genjutsu were available to kakashi as well as Madara and it did nothing to Tobi.
Originally posted by jinzin
I'm not sure how you think the trap of a dying man, implanted in a dying eye has to do with Madara but Tobi even suggested that Itachi may not have been trying to kill him and was instead just trying to keep him away from Sasuke. In any case he's not the only character to tank Amaterasu.... The Raikage did that. I bet he can beat up Madara too!-oh wait.
IDK, the only man to survive his entire face and body on fire from Amaterasu, sounds impressive to me. A didn't take amaterasu to the face so completely different circumstance. Had he got it on his face, he would be dead. What's with the sarcasm and condescending attitude? Usually I respect your posts, but you must be cranky.
Originally posted by jinzin
Funny Konan didn't need S/T techniques to blow away half his body and force him into using Izanagi. 😐 Naruto didn't use a S/T technique to headbutt him.
As for Naruto, he may easily be the 1st or second fastest person in the manga, and like I said, he hasn't blitzed since iirc.
Originally posted by jinzin
Are you SURE that's what you saw?
http://www.mangasky.com/Naruto/565/5/
Yeah, that's what I saw.
Originally posted by jinzin
Guy isn't using the 7 gates right now. Wait, so using Rennigan is too risky? Is that your excuse for why he isn't using it? Cause, y'know... MADARA IS!
yes, and who besides maybe A can blitz Madara? And A is slower than Naruto and A to my knowledge can't spam clones to attack you from behind. Oh, and Tobi has kamui, so he doesn't need to absorb techs like Madara. Even force push/pull has its disadvantags. The SM Naruto/Pain fight comes to mind. Besides, Madara has used it sparingly himself. some meteors that he used once and absorption. not really spamming imo. Both have been mainly relying on their own powers.
Originally posted by jinzin
All I'm saying is, so far we've seen Madara be a WHOLE lot more impressive than Tobi casually fighting 5 Kage who Tobi noted needed to be subdued before he could capture them. Tobi, who has had his ass blown up or beaten up in almost every legitimate fight he's been in so far. Madara doesn't need to have S/T techniques to beat Tobi, he just has to be more competent than Torune and Fu in a 2 on 1 fight... or given what we've seen with the Kage fight, 6 on one. Not really sure that's a big stretch... 😐
And I disagree. Madara, with all his amps, has been forced to use his strongest tech (perfect susano'o) to extend his life. Not much different from Tobi. Tobi didn't have what he has now in the 2 on 1 fight, but okay. Also, getting trumped by a legendary Hokage with a teleportation jutsu, or a girl that can manipulate a billion exploding tags would be an ordeal for anyone. Including Madara.
Madara has taken on 5 Kages and done well. tobi has taken on naruto ( who is much stronger than the kages), kurama, kakashi, bee, and gai (all of whom are easily kage level) and until just the last chapter, has done extremely well. i really don't see madara doing any better than Tobi if the teams were switched.
Originally posted by socool8520
^ How so? Madara's physical attacks would do absolutely nothing to Tobi. At all. Not the same for Tobi's attacks against Madara. All Tobi has to do is touch Madara and it's game over. With his Juubi control and rinnegan, he is just as formidable as Madara.
Beh, clearly you're not receptive on this topic anyways.
Originally posted by socool8520
This isn't relevant anyways since this was before Tobi had his current arsenal. Had he had everything he has now, they would be dead.
You implied Tobi could stop the Kage with just Kamui. He had Kamui at the time. It is relevant. And yes, now he would beat them.
Originally posted by socool8520
That does mean he can stop it. He did 😕 Those spores can be destroyed with a large FRS or spam cloned rasengans. Naruto has more than enough speed to get away from the spores and let his clones and FRS destroy them. The 5 minute time limit isn't permanent, and even with SM clones, he has the sensory and techs to hold out til he can re-enter KCM. Besides, for all we know, naruto's bijuudama may have enough power to break or severely weaken PS. This still doesn't prove that Madara is on another tier than current Naruto.
It means he stopped one attack. How impressive. And yeah, I know that the spores can be destroyed at a cellular level. Too bad Naruto doesn't. Madara merely needs to make sure Naruto is in place for the attack to work. And yeah, Naruto's Bijuudama would do quite a bit of damage to Madara's Susano'o. It's just that the Susano'o sword will hurt Naruto more.
Originally posted by socool8520
He can't stop speed clones and taijutsu. Not 100% of the time. If he absorbs, he is vulnerable to physical attack. If A and Tsu were fast enough to tag Madara, Naruto is definitely fast enough. Madara would have to go PS pretty early. As far as I know, he can't use paths and susano'o at the same time, so he is vulnerable one way or the other. To my knowledge, Madara never fully fought with Kurama. He has sharingan control of it, which is a big difference. The only two people that we have seen fight a bijuu solo on panel was the third Raikage and Minato iirc.
He has used paths and Susano'o at the same time. And yeah, Naruto's speed will be the big problem for Madara. A meteor should do the trick though. And I was thinking that Hashirama wrested control of the Kyuubi from Madara at the VotE and used it against him. Don't know if I'm remembering right or not(probably not).
Can Tobi even try and phase Madara when Madara has susano'o on?
And Madara has pretty much as many people to watch his back as needed. Coordinated strikes are something Tobi has to be careful of (it is worth noting that while Kamui is letting Kakashi deal damage to Tobi consistently, their working together was preventing him from dealing much offense in return).
Originally posted by AuraAngel
It means he stopped one attack. How impressive. And yeah, I know that the spores can be destroyed at a cellular level. Too bad Naruto doesn't. Madara merely needs to make sure Naruto is in place for the attack to work. And yeah, Naruto's Bijuudama would do quite a bit of damage to Madara's Susano'o. It's just that the Susano'o sword will hurt Naruto more.
Yeah, one attack, with a small amount of kurama's chakra as stated by Kurama. means he could do it again if needed. just because naruto doesn't know that it can be destroyed at a cellular level doesn't mean it would be out of character for him to just hack away at it with a power tech. This is purely speculation, but I would think maybe Kurama would recognize the tech too. he was around during that legendary battle. Not saying this is true, but possible. Naruto does have a chakra cloak of his own with a chakra arm strong enough to do quite a bit of damage to the ground in an attempt to smash Tobi. It would at least soak up some of the damage of a sword slash form susano'o. I think it would be awesome to see who's techs win out in that regard.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
He has used paths and Susano'o at the same time. And yeah, Naruto's speed will be the big problem for Madara. A meteor should do the trick though. And I was thinking that Hashirama wrested control of the Kyuubi from Madara at the VotE and used it against him. Don't know if I'm remembering right or not(probably not).
he was pulled from his susano'o and couldn't bring up another one which was why he was forced to use absorption, unless you are referring to something else. A meteor would suck but I think Naruto could clear the distance depending on how fast it is. hash may have used kurama against him but that would mean he still lost to Hash/kurama so it owuldn't matter anyways.