Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Coming from anyone else, I'd be offended 😄But back to the thread.
Good point on the SHAZAM punches Abhi - but what about WW's resistance to magic? Surely that would help her?
Wonder Woman's resistance to magick didn't seem to help her against Disciple(which Superman walked through) nor, when taking all context into consideration, keep her from looking compared to Superman against KINGDOM Gog.
Originally posted by -Pr-
i wouldn't count that as a win any more than him punching her through the atmosphere. IE, not at all, especially with his HF.
Except after the atmosphere one, he tried to get to her to finish the job and she was already recovered by the time he arrived. He was unable to take advantage.
He, on the other hand, was there for over 25 seconds (we have a video recording that gives time stamps) before his throat closed while WW was just standing there talking or breaking necks.
While it's not inconceivable for him to last that long without taking his hands off the neck, he was very much at a disadvantage in a way that WW's brief KO wasn't.
abhilegend
Also, it was just a couple of seconds.
Time stamp of neck cut: 2 minutes, 1.688 seconds after battle begins.
Time stamp of Lord's neck snap: 2 minutes, 25.991 seconds after battle begins.
Elapsed time: Precisely 24.303 seconds.
Thank you, Brother Eye, for your work in labeled recordings.
Also, when Superman did remove his hand, several seconds after that, his neck was not done healing, it began bleeding again, but soon stopped.
This is a topic where I've pwned you with regularity 🙂
You always forget things like "wonder woman oneshotted supergirl".
I did admit I was wrong about that one.
Still, you can't just ignore the rest like you like to. And that's not exactly a low feat, she still took down a herald even if it was a beat up herald.
As far this fight goes black lightning owned diana with just a single attack, Dr. polaris did the same with tazers. Imagine what shazam lightning amped superman level punches would do to her.
And she's also taken Zeus's lightning just fine.
Where does CM get his lightning? Zeus.
Her electricity resistance is simply inconsistent. It's worked twice, and not worked plenty of times.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Disadvantage? Sure. The fight over because of that action? Not in the slightest imo. He still had one free arm and plenty of other options. Besides, even if she had pressed the attack, there was no guarantee of victory.
Not a guarantee, but having your throat cut is a prrrrretty large disadvantage in my book.
If a fight stops when one side has a major advantage, I call it a 'win.'
Originally posted by Q99
Except after the atmosphere one, he tried to get to her to finish the job and she was already recovered by the time he arrived. He was unable to take advantage.He, on the other hand, was there for over 25 seconds (we have a video recording that gives time stamps) before his throat closed while WW was just standing there talking or breaking necks.
While it's not inconceivable for him to last that long without taking his hands off the neck, he was very much at a disadvantage in a way that WW's brief KO wasn't.
Time stamp of neck cut: 2 minutes, 1.688 seconds after battle begins.
Time stamp of Lord's neck snap: 2 minutes, 25.991 seconds after battle begins.
Elapsed time: Precisely 24.303 seconds.
Thank you, Brother Eye, for your work in labeled recordings.
Also, when Superman did remove his hand, several seconds after that, his neck was not done healing, it began bleeding again, but soon stopped.
This is a topic where I've pwned you with regularity 🙂
I did admit I was wrong about that one.
Still, you can't just ignore the rest like you like to. And that's not exactly a low feat, she still took down a herald even if it was a beat up herald.
And she's also taken Zeus's lightning just fine.
Where does CM get his lightning? Zeus.
Her electricity resistance is simply inconsistent. It's worked twice, and not worked plenty of times.
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Durability/healing/wonderwoman219zy.jpg
Anyway this is superman, the guy has had bullets punch right through his torso after getting highly depowered and keep on fighting
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Durability/healing/ActionComics817a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Durability/healing/ActionComics818a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Durability/healing/ActionComics818b.jpg
Healed from a kryptonite sword through heart in one panel
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Durability/healing/supermanbatman18a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Durability/healing/supermanbatman18b.jpg
Originally posted by Q99
Not a guarantee, but having your throat cut is a prrrrretty large disadvantage in my book.If a fight stops when one side has a major advantage, I call it a 'win.'
I could, like I said, easily say the same about his punch through the atmosphere, though. Superman was still conscious, still physically able, so I don't see how Diana beat him, tbh.
Besides, if we started deciding fights that way, guys with Healing Factors wouldn't have half of the wins they have.
Originally posted by abhilegend
I would like to see that non-existant scan which you didn't produce at your imaginary threads where you owned me. What happened in reality though is that he went in shock when diana freed him from max's control like when bruce called him out and he saw what max forced him to do. As for that slit throat, it didn't even stopped him from talking much less made him helplesshttp://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Durability/healing/wonderwoman219zy.jpg
Anyway this is superman, the guy has had bullets punch right through his torso after getting highly depowered and keep on fighting
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Durability/healing/ActionComics817a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Durability/healing/ActionComics818a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Durability/healing/ActionComics818b.jpgHealed from a kryptonite sword through heart in one panel
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Durability/healing/supermanbatman18a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Durability/healing/supermanbatman18b.jpg
Do you have to be so bloody snarky with people? Really?
Originally posted by -Pr-
I could, like I said, easily say the same about his punch through the atmosphere, though. Superman was still conscious, still physically able, so I don't see how Diana beat him, tbh.Besides, if we started deciding fights that way, guys with Healing Factors wouldn't have half of the wins they have.
Do you have to be so bloody snarky with people? Really?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I wouldn't see it the same way, with HF guys - most of the time, they deliberately take it because they know they can heal from it.Superman, iirc, didn't deliberately try to tank the tiara.
Huh? Superman tries to tank everything. It's his MO.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Its all your fault. If you had banned carver, I wouldn't have developed my snarky behaviour.uhuh
sneer
Lord knows Ive had my share of Superman vs. Wonder Woman debates with Q, and in the end we just didnt see eye to eye (but Ive always respect him, and valued his opinions on this and all such matters). Ive seen Too Many instances where Superman proved to be Wonder Womans superior, she herself even admitting she cant reliably beat him in a fight, where her best showing was the throat slitting tiara throw, and even that Id not call a WW win (as Supes was beating the crud out of her before that, and that fight could have easily gone either way).
But this isnt Superman but Capt Marvel vs. Wonder Woman, and while physically CM is a near match to Supes, he doesnt have Supes will, drive, experience, intellect, fighting skills or array of powers, and Wonder Woman unlike Superman doesnt have a weakness to magic. Still, I think CM is closer to Supes than WW is, and in the end would give him a slight nod against her, but it would be a very close fight.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Then the odds have just shortened imo for Cap.
What do you mean?
Originally posted by Q99
Except after the atmosphere one, he tried to get to her to finish the job and she was already recovered by the time he arrived. He was unable to take advantage.He, on the other hand, was there for over 25 seconds (we have a video recording that gives time stamps) before his throat closed while WW was just standing there talking or breaking necks.
Except, Wonder Woman was only revived because of re-entry heat, and Superman didn't even know the tiara was coming. If he had, he could've easily dodged it or deflected it with his breath. And the fact that he had all that shock from being unaware of the circumstances causes huge issues when trying to apply this for Wonder Woman in a typical debate scenario.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Healed from a kryptonite sword through heart in one panel
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Durability/healing/supermanbatman18a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Durability/healing/supermanbatman18b.jpg
You forgot to add that Cosmic King had turned the iron in Superman's blood into Kryptonite before he took that sword.
Originally posted by DTM
I think in that same storyline, which granted is an alternate universe one, though IMO still perfectly valid, Superman demolished and then killed an armored/weaponed up Wonder Woman (he was enraged after finding out she killed Batman, who was like a brother to him).
Originally posted by DTM
I think in that same storyline, which granted is an alternate universe one, though IMO still perfectly valid, Superman demolished and then killed an armored/weaponed up Wonder Woman (he was enraged after finding out she killed Batman, who was like a brother to him).
Well I don't see it as an alternate universe or anything like that. Time was messed with, but the LSV had only gone far enough into the past to when the moments that made Superman and Batman happened, and then eventually Clark and Bruce set things right.
And yeah, Superman demolished her in a short period of time. Wonder Woman supporters try to use that things were different, that she wouldn't have had her power-ups, blah blah blah. Problem with that argument, is that would mean Superman likely wouldn't have had any power-ups either. If we do assume power levels were different, if anything it'd be him at Byrne-levels, just not holding back.
And I also thought of them as the equivalent of adoptive brothers in that story arc. Which I say, since I'm adopted myself, doesn't really change anything if you're raised from birth like I was.
[i]Originally posted by -Pr-
Huh? Superman tries to tank everything. It's his MO.
Things like bullets and bombs, sure. But not one writer had him trying to tank Darkseids OE, even before he knew what they were.
I'd think if he was in his right mind, he'd know better than to tank a magical item..
Byrne usually wrote a smarter Superman. Had him deliberately thinking to himself that he's better off dodging weird laser beams fired by strange a giant mechanical construct, than try and take them. Hell, his first thought vs a giant flying stone cube thrown by Blok was whether he was able to dodge it, even though it couldn't possible hurt him..
Originally posted by cdtm
Things like bullets and bombs, sure. But not one writer had him trying to tank Darkseids OE, even before he knew what they were.I'd think if he was in his right mind, he'd know better than to tank a magical item..
Byrne usually wrote a smarter Superman. Had him deliberately thinking to himself that he's better off dodging weird laser beams fired by strange a giant mechanical construct, than try and take them. Hell, his first thought vs a giant flying stone cube thrown by Blok was whether he was able to dodge it, even though it couldn't possible hurt him..
Byrne also wrote a Superman who was still learning his limits. There's better examples of Byrne writing a "smarter" Superman than him dodging stuff when he's still learning what he can and can't take.
Originally posted by Delta1938
Byrne also wrote a Superman who was still learning his limits. There's better examples of Byrne writing a "smarter" Superman than him dodging stuff when he's still learning what he can and can't take.
I don't know, I consider it pretty smart writing that he didn't let his powers go to his head, and was actually level headed enough to be cautious despite knowing he had god like power...
For all the flack early era Guy Gardner got, he's pretty much what you're most likely to get when you give a noob god like power. Reckless charging into every situation, because you don't think you can be stopped.
Originally posted by cdtm
Things like bullets and bombs, sure. But not one writer had him trying to tank Darkseids OE, even before he knew what they were.I'd think if he was in his right mind, he'd know better than to tank a magical item..
Byrne usually wrote a smarter Superman. Had him deliberately thinking to himself that he's better off dodging weird laser beams fired by strange a giant mechanical construct, than try and take them. Hell, his first thought vs a giant flying stone cube thrown by Blok was whether he was able to dodge it, even though it couldn't possible hurt him..
So those panels where Superman is tanking Darkseid's eyebeams never happened, did they? 😛
