Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So much for that vaunted Spidey sense, I guess.Iron bars<<adamantium.
I'm sorry, but that scan can't be used as evidence. The writer of the story it is from, Amazing Spiderman #162, is Len "my Spiderman is crap at fighting" Wein.
When Spiderman is written properly, his spider sense would warn him that the "sniper victim" in the alley, is a gun toting thug, and he would web him up before he can move.
When the 2nd thug goes to whack him, his spider sense + super reflexes would enable him to easily avoid getting hit, and he could then get in a ko punch before the bloke could take another swipe. Even if thug 2 connected, it shouldn't bother a man who has swapped punches with other super humans who are his strength level, 10ton, and above. Full blooded 10tonner punch>>>>>>>>>2 bit thug with iron bar.
Now that i have got that of my chest, I say that Wolverine wins this 10/10.
Originally posted by DarkSaint851. Vulture, an old man who, at the time, had no real strength, KOs Spiderman with a kick to the head ...
I can take your point that they are different characters, due to time ...
For purposes of this discussion, "real strength" is effectively Wolverine's level of strength, since he's the actual opponent Spidey's supposed to be going against. I'd be impressed if you could prove Vulture less strong
Originally posted by emu
You cannot read the entire WWH arc, and then compare that to compound damage by Spiderman, just because it worked for Hulk.
Spidermans strength is above his own durability, so that's no good facing adamantium for starters. Then there's the fact you're using WWH as an example of why Spiderman might win this, when there's no proof that can't be countered 5 scans to one of anyone above Spidermans strength doing the exact same compound damage to Wolverine the way WWH did.
By the same token, if you drop a person out of a plane at 50,000 feat and they heal the damage it doesn't mean that healing the damage from dropping them out 20,000 feat will be any "easier" to heal because in both cases their body is receiving the same amount of damage... their body is totally f*cked.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Im in no way suggesting Spidey wins this(I very specifically said that I think Spidey would KO himself headbutting Wolverine), nor am I saying that Spidey's damage output is actually equal to WWH. My point is that in regards to tissue/organ damage, Wolverine doesn't actually resist the damage he simply heals it and total organ destruction is total organ destruction whether it comes from 20 tons of force or 1,000,000,000 tons of force. Against someone like Namor who has actual enhanced durability in his muscles and soft tissues, I absolutely think that Spidey would need to deliver a lot more punches than Hulk to achieve a KO, but against someone like Wolverine I don't think he would because if he's not htolding back Spidey should be able to cause total organ destruction with a single punch as well.By the same token, if you drop a person out of a plane at 50,000 feat and they heal the damage it doesn't mean that healing the damage from dropping them out 20,000 feat will be any "easier" to heal because in both cases their body is receiving the same amount of damage... their body is totally f*cked.
I think the thing you're forgetting is his adamantium skeleton, which absorbs a ton of the force he receives before the damage reaches his organs. Otherwise showings like tanking Spider-Man's all out barrage of punches in the cemetery don't make sense, but that's far from the only time he's taken a barrage of superhuman punches.
I think that's when Hulk level strength makes a difference, being strong enough to liquify the organs of not just someone with human durability, but enough that there's enough damage to do so even after the adamantium has absorbed a significant portion of it.
Originally posted by Ize19
I think the thing you're forgetting is his adamantium skeleton, which absorbs a ton of the force he receives before the damage reaches his organs. Otherwise showings like tanking Spider-Man's all out barrage of punches in the cemetery don't make sense, but that's far from the only time he's taken a barrage of superhuman punches.I think that's when Hulk level strength makes a difference, being strong enough to liquify the organs of not just someone with human durability, but enough that there's enough damage to do so even after the adamantium has absorbed a significant portion of it.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah but it's not like it can be definitively said that Spidey was using "all out punches" in their cemetary fight. Spidey didn't even think about going for the kill until the very end of their fight after all. What's more, it's not like Spidey's level of strength and the effectiveness of Wolverine's healing factor are handled with 100% consistancy. I'm less opposed to the idea that Spidey can't KO Wolverine in 7 hits than I am the idea that it REQUIRES the equivelent of 7 WWH punches to do so. Wolverine has been KO'd by less after all and what I'm saying is that him being KO'd by less doesn't actually contradict him withstanding multiple hits from top guys because a brain melting is a brain melting regardless of how many tons went into the melting of said brain.
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The instance of Sentry ko'ing Logan with one shot attests to that. Not saying what that means to WWH before just in case someone suggests that's what I'm implying. But thought I'd add to what you said.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah but it's not like it can be definitively said that Spidey was using "all out punches" in their cemetary fight. Spidey didn't even think about going for the kill until the very end of their fight after all. What's more, it's not like Spidey's level of strength and the effectiveness of Wolverine's healing factor are handled with 100% consistancy. I'm less opposed to the idea that Spidey can't KO Wolverine in 7 hits than I am the idea that it REQUIRES the equivelent of 7 WWH punches to do so. Wolverine has been KO'd by less after all and what I'm saying is that him being KO'd by less doesn't actually contradict him withstanding multiple hits from top guys because a brain melting is a brain melting regardless of how many tons went into the melting of said brain.
"Wolverine has an adamantium skull. I bash away with everything I've got." "I'm hitting him hard enough to wreck cars." I mean, seems kinda hard to argue he wasn't going all out to me.
Right, the WWH feat is high end, but it's not alone on that high end or anything. The fact is, Spider-Man knocking out Wolverine with any small number of punches is contradicted by the amount of times he's failed to do so, not by WWH's success.
Sure, but Spider-Man being capable of brain melting someone with an adamantium skull can't be taken for granted, especially given his failures to do so.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Anything you posted there is even remotely impressive, iyo?
I'm not sure you understand the concept of context, Stilt.
I'm not trying to prove the Vulture is strong compared to the Hulk, I'm answering D.S.'s claim that the Vulture is just an old man with an old man's relatively negligible physical strength. He's a cut above that. Even in his early appearances he had the strength to lift manhole covers with ease, for instance.
Fact, because some other poster lumped you in with a bunch of Wolverine fanatics and you told me to read some comics, I'm going to issue you a challenge relative to this thread. I know of only 3 instances of Wolverine displaying greater than Olympian strength, POSSIBLY 4. Those are:
-- knocking Rogue through some kind of wall
-- knocking either Sabretooth and/ or some clawed mutant like him with a healing factor out, underwater, with enough force that he did damage to the side of the pool they'd landed in
-- resisting the power of The Hellfire Club's Harry Leland to the point of partial floor collapse of their clubhouse. Logan thinks to himself he must weigh tons, though he has no real reference to this from anything I've seen, just that he feels heavy. It halts his advance, then brings him to his knees. For the sake of argument I'll assume his assessment correct.
I think the pool episode occurs in some story where Wolverine thinks the mutant may actually be his brother, and it's not Sabretooth; this mutant actually looks like Wolverine, albeit with a single metal claw instead of 3 metal ones.
Challenge is this: Show me, APART from these 3 or 4 showings (Sabretooth would be the 4th if he's done the pool punch with Sabretooth) where Wolverine has ever displayed strength greater than the Vulture does against Daredevil or Spider-Man in my previous showing, at any point in his career.
I seriously doubt you can, and I'll even be impressed if you show head feats greater than the Vulture unwittingly achieves, though strength is the only real focus here.
Bring it ... IF you think you can.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Wolverine versus Harry Leland.I say Vulture, the "old man without real strength" is stronger than Wolverine.
Perhaps only the following showing, and perhaps 2 or 3 others even seem to put Wolvy in the class of the 1st physical and colorful costumed villain Spidey fought.
I know the challenge is for Stilt, but as he's not on right now, I thought I'd post a few feats in response.
Here Wolverine holds up an elevator full of people:
http://imgur.com/iwskHIl
Here Wolverine opens up a pressurized cabin door:
http://imgur.com/DtlSJML
He kicks off the head of a cybernetically enhance ninja:
http://imgur.com/QF5eKsf
He uses sheer strength to break these restraints:
http://imgur.com/qZRVLlQ
Those same restraints held both Beast and Rogue:
http://imgur.com/aHP5MWx
Originally posted by Ize19
I know the challenge is for Stilt, but as he's not on right now, I thought I'd post a few feats in response.Here Wolverine opens up a pressurized cabin door:
http://imgur.com/DtlSJMLHe kicks off the head of a cybernetically enhance ninja:
http://imgur.com/QF5eKsfHe uses sheer strength to break these restraints:
http://imgur.com/qZRVLlQThose same restraints held both Beast and Rogue:
http://imgur.com/aHP5MWx
I have no real concept for how easy or difficult the pressure cabinet is.
It seems to impress you, so I'll count it as high as lifting a manhole cover, no problem.
Kicking the head off the mech-ninja doesn't impress me, to be frank; Wolverine is known to be a top martial artist; virtual any Marvel martial artist could do the same.
Those restraints are in an X-Men comic I used to be fairly familiar with.
Beast actually does break out of those to save his friends from Sabretooth in that same issue.
I am impressed by the elevator scene, though. One-handed at that?
Yeah, that IS pretty good ...
