Superman vs. Wonder Woman

Originally posted by abhilegend
Also Rucka was quite fond of weaker character disorienting stronger characters with such suckershots. Just a few issues earlier Batman did the same to wonder woman.

Are you ****ing with me with that scan? It's ****ing Batman, he makes every characters look likes chmp with his ****ing PIS/CIS armor.

The fact that Batman was even able to hurt Diana with a punch like that, no matter where he hit her was straight up bullshit and idiotic on the author's part.

Did you also forget that Diana can fight using just the air current to feel the flow of her opponents?

With that reasoning, i guess Batman is also more powerful than the Spectre, since he once drop kicked him. When it was made knowledgeable that the Spectre's weight is near finite.

I'm guessing you don't know what "finite" means...

Originally posted by pym-ftw
I'm guessing you don't know what "finite" means...

Meant Infinite genius.

😛

It actually would have worked the way you had it.

"Near finite" as in

"You can ALMOST quantify how heavy Spectre is ..."

"Yeah -- you probably could do it if The Spectre just didn't WEIGH so much as it does ..."

Originally posted by SquallX
Are you ****ing with me with that scan? It's ****ing Batman, he makes every characters look likes chmp with his ****ing PIS/CIS armor.

The fact that Batman was even able to hurt Diana with a punch like that, no matter where he hit her was straight up bullshit and idiotic on the author's part.

Did you also forget that Diana can fight using just the air current to feel the flow of her opponents?

With that reasoning, i guess Batman is also more powerful than the Spectre, since he once drop kicked him. When it was made knowledgeable that the Spectre's weight is near finite.

Also Spectre was just making sure bruce was OK. He wasn't hurt at all.

Originally posted by carver9
Ice isn't slowing down someone that can bust mountains apart...sorry my friend. She was already hit with ice breath and it did nothing to her. Hell, the ending result was Superman getting blitzed by Diana.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Behind him. Superman didn't know that Doomsday would run and hide.
Ok. I'm not sure where I misrepresented anything regarding any character or be aggressive without being provoked but I'm not going to argue you on it.

I don't believe you, but in the interest of fairness, i'll give you an example:

Trying to use Superman's HV attack in FC as some sort of standard attack and claiming that it will one shot her.

========

Why are people still using Sacrifice as a measure of Superman? It's NOT VALID. You can't measure anything about Superman during that fight, because he's mentally compromised, and doesn't act at all like normal Clark would.

it's usable in terms of Diana taking hits and acquitting herself well, but that's really it.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't believe you, but in the interest of fairness, i'll give you an example:

Trying to use Superman's HV attack in FC as some sort of standard attack and claiming that it will one shot her.

========

Why are people still using Sacrifice as a measure of Superman? It's NOT VALID. You can't measure anything about Superman during that fight, because he's mentally compromised, and doesn't act at all like normal Clark would.

it's usable in terms of Diana taking hits and acquitting herself well, but that's really it.

😮

Originally posted by abhilegend
😂

Freeze breath has stopped people like Bizarro

Nightwing and Flamebird trapped a phantom zone criminal with it, too.

At the least, freeze breath usually takes long enough to break out of to give Superman a free hit.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Oh, that's what you meant. You are right about that its not a standard showing for a normal superman. But when people like carver and BAV start using imaginary feats where Wonder Woman's lightning would beat superman despite it never doing anything on that level, I could be excused to use a showing superman actually beating diana, right?

😮

You're supposed to rise above that shit. I don't need another carver on this site, especially with how little time I've been spending here lately.

Bran... Well, I just ignore Bran.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Oh, that's what you meant. You are right about that its not a standard showing for a normal superman. But when people like carver and BAV start using imaginary feats where Wonder Woman's lightning would beat superman despite it never doing anything on that level, I could be excused to use a showing superman actually beating diana, right?

😮

I never said anything about WW lightning beating Superman. I gave Superman the majority here. Stop bringing me up becuaee Pr is ripping through you. This is hilarious....using me as a cover up.

Originally posted by -Pr-

Why are people still using Sacrifice as a measure of Superman? It's NOT VALID. You can't measure anything about Superman during that fight, because he's mentally compromised, and doesn't act at all like normal Clark would.

it's usable in terms of Diana taking hits and acquitting herself well, but that's really it.

Perhaps, but that's quite a bit.

If Diana can survive the greatest haymaker I'VE personally known Superman to deliver to an opponent, in a story that sees him bathed in the sun's corona, murderously enraged, not holding back anything according to the author himself in an interview discussing the story, and deluded by ALL his senses into believing he's facing the greatest enemy he's ever faced, who not only beat Superman into a coma years before, but who has just murdered his wife ...

yeah, there's good reason to believe Diana can take just about anything Clark at his far more reasonable standard levels will deliver in a fight.

Moreover, it's precisely BECAUSE Clark is mentally compromised in that specific way that we're given the opportunity to see just how much physical force Diana can survive and come back from. Almost any other scenario makes it plausible that Superman is somehow keeping himself in check.

Witness the Vanishing from the "For Tomorrow" storyline, for instance.
What is IT good for? Does it represent a valid fight between Superman and Wonder Woman? It is little more than an intense argument between friends who are not quite lovers, one of whom, despite her bluffs, is trying to save the life of her friend from what she thinks will be his death.

He, for his part, is trying to tell that woman that his life won't be worth living anymore, ISN'T worth living anymore, if he doesn't put his life on the line and discover the truth of what recently happened to the people he cares about.

There's scarcely anything usefully demonstrable about such an engagement.
Neither is particular tactful or strategic. The main weapon Diana sports is NOT her own, though often confused for such. There is no resolution save Superman appealing to Diana to have faith enough that, by saving the lives of 2 imperiled others, thus allowing him to escape, she will ultimately have HIM back and those missing people, improbable though it seems.

'Bout the only thing I ever find it useful for is to:

a) demonstrate how writers either find inspiration from, or directly copy, other works
b) demonstrate how writers deliberately or inadvertently frame a story to make Superman look good at the expense of others
c) demonstrate how physically strong Diana can be seen to be if you actually focus on what she herself really does

Actually, it makes sense to post that here now.

In the interest of time, I'll just do it from the bank I already have in my Wonder Woman Respect thread. Note of course that the selection is meant to be tested in a thread to illustrate points a, b, and c IN an active thread with active opposition.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13985687

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13985688

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13985690

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13985692

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13985695

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13985697

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13985701

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Storyline: "For Tomorrow."
Source: Superman #211, Volume 2
Writer: Brian Azzarello
Penciller: Jim Lee
Date: January 2005
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Superman_Vol_2_211

Fuller context, the kind the vast majority of fans would likely never get to under normal circumstances, can be found on the following page:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=525118&pagenumber=5

(Click-able link version of the above.)

Originally posted by -Pr-

Why are people still using Sacrifice as a measure of Superman? It's NOT VALID. You can't measure anything about Superman during that fight, because he's mentally compromised, and doesn't act at all like normal Clark would.

it's usable in terms of Diana taking hits and acquitting herself well, but that's really it.

Perhaps, but that's quite a bit.

If Diana can survive the greatest haymaker I'VE personally known Superman to deliver to an opponent, in a story that sees him bathed in the sun's corona, murderously enraged, not holding back anything according to the author himself in an interview discussing the story, and deluded by ALL his senses into believing he's facing the greatest enemy he's ever faced, who not only beat Superman into a coma years before, but who has just murdered his wife ...

yeah, there's good reason to believe Diana can take just about anything Clark at his far more reasonable standard levels will deliver in a fight.

Moreover, it's precisely BECAUSE Clark is mentally compromised in that specific way that we're given the opportunity to see just how much physical force Diana can survive and come back from. Almost any other scenario makes it plausible that Superman is somehow keeping himself in check.

Witness the Vanishing from the "For Tomorrow" storyline, for instance.
What is IT good for? Does it represent a valid fight between Superman and Wonder Woman? It is little more than an intense argument between friends who are not quite lovers, one of whom, despite her bluffs, is trying to save the life of her friend from what she thinks will be his death.

He, for his part, is trying to tell that woman that his life won't be worth living anymore, ISN'T worth living anymore, if he doesn't put his life on the line and discover the truth of what recently happened to the people he cares about.

There's scarcely anything usefully demonstrable about such an engagement.
Neither is particular tactful or strategic. The main weapon Diana sports is NOT her own, though often confused for such. There is no resolution save Superman appealing to Diana to have faith enough that, by saving the lives of 2 imperiled others, thus allowing him to escape, she will ultimately have HIM back and those missing people, improbable though it seems.

'Bout the only thing I ever find it useful for is to:

a) demonstrate how writers either find inspiration from, or directly copy, other works
b) demonstrate how writers deliberately or inadvertently frame a story to make Superman look good at the expense of others
c) demonstrate how physically strong Diana can be seen to be if you actually focus on what she herself really does

Actually, it makes sense to post that here now.

In the interest of time, I'll just do it from the bank I already have in my Wonder Woman Respect thread. Note of course that the selection is meant to be tested in a thread to illustrate points a, b, and c IN an active thread with active opposition.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13985687

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13985688

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13985690

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13985692

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13985695

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13985697

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13985701

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Storyline: "For Tomorrow."
Source: Superman #211, Volume 2
Writer: Brian Azzarello
Penciller: Jim Lee
Date: January 2005
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Superman_Vol_2_211

Fuller context, the kind the vast majority of fans would likely never get to under normal circumstances, can be found on the following page:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=525118&pagenumber=5

Originally posted by carver9
I never said anything about WW lightning beating Superman. I gave Superman the majority here. Stop bringing me up becuaee Pr is ripping through you. This is hilarious....using me as a cover up.

Shut up carter.

====

The problem, Blue, is that Superman isn't some mindless brute. When he fights, he's always thinking. This is a guy that calculates what direction his enemy will fly when he hits them, what kind of elevation they'll have, and whether they'll fly through anything containing civilians. He's always running numbers in his head, and he applies that more in his skills.

Superman at his average, won't take Diana's head off. That much is true. Superman actually trying to kill Diana without being mentally compromised, though, is going to go about it in an entirely different manner than he would have in Sacrifice.

Originally posted by -Pr-
You're supposed to rise above that shit. I don't need another carver on this site, especially with how little time I've been spending here lately.

Bran... Well, I just ignore Bran.

Its Blue Area Vet, the carver jr. which I was talking about. Not bran.

Originally posted by carver9
I never said anything about WW lightning beating Superman. I gave Superman the majority here. Stop bringing me up becuaee Pr is ripping through you. This is hilarious....using me as a cover up.

You are cute when you try to hide your thinly veiled contempt towards superman. Really cute.

"Thinly veiled"... Really? That's not what that word means.

Originally posted by -Pr-
"Thinly veiled"... Really? That's not what that word means.

😮

I just meant that nothing about Carver's super-hate is thinly veiled.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I just meant that nothing about Carver's super-hate is thinly veiled.

Damn you.

ranting