Revan and the Unbalancing of the Galaxy Feat

Started by Ziggystardust18 pages

My respect for Revan continues to increase, but ILS is doing a good job here. Perhaps he should try and raise the respect level for Maul back to it's original pedestal.

Wow, ILS.
TOR brigade will likely do an hero soon.

He's arguing against Ant on the Revan topic, don't get so excited.

But he is mother****ing ILS.

I had past ILS as a top tier debater, but in more recent times lowered him because I thought he had declined. It seems I was wrong, and now have a newfound respect and appreciation for his debating ability. 👆

@ILS

Fun notes? It’s suggested that Plagueis does not know of any other Sith to have been capable of recreating what he is going to do in the later text; however, he knows who Vitiate is, which I think is telling. Whether Plagueis knew enough of Vitiate’s exploits to make the call, or if it’s an implication by the author that Vitiate isn’t among those to master Midichlorian manipulation, it’s interesting. And, as you’ll find out, it’s already obvious since we, the audience, know Vitiate hasn’t managed this technique.

1. You need to understand that that is from the perspective of Darth Plagueis.

2. Darth Plagueis was not a historian. It is not wise to take his knowledge as all-encompassing or even close.

3. Ancient Sith adopted different methods to attain immortality:

TO THE SITH, life is conflict. All living things struggle against the bonds that restrict them, and grow stronger for it. To refuse the inevitability of death, and hold on to one's hard-earned power forever, is a proposition many Sith have found impossible to resist. Over the years, Sith have employed cybernetics, dark sciences, and other unsavory techniques in pursuit of eternal life. And when life fails them, Sith persist through their sheer force of will. Holocrons bear their visage and teachings for eternity, while some Sith even break the restraints of death itself to wreak havoc as Force apparitions.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia

Darth Plagueis seemingly took the art of Midichlorian Manipulation to the next level but this was far from certain:

If a Sith of equal power had preceded him, then that one had taken his or her secrets to the grave, or had locked them away in holocrons that had been destroyed or had yet to surface.

The question of whether he and Sidious had discovered something new or rediscovered something ancient was beside the point.

Taken from Star Wars: Darth Plagueis

Very telling.

Kindly explore the stories of Darth(s) Drear and Scabrous. They adopted the path of dark sciences to attain immortality.

And that’s just the point of the etheric war waged on the Force; the Force’s building blocks are Midichlorians. It’s “proxy army”, to quote Plagueis, through which the Force exerts it’s own will. The greatest affront to the Force, the most unnatural attack against it, is then logically, to manipulate those fundamental building blocks of the universe - something that would, surely, not go uncontested (and at the time, it did, or so we thought).

That’s why they had to not only disturb and unbalance the Force, but to dominate it through sheer willpower. To make it yield. The founding principle of the usage of the Dark Side is bending the Force to your will; this, then, this manipulation of Midichlorians, the vessel of the Force’s expression on the physical world, is not just the greatest usage of the Force ever, but the greatest abuse of it. The greatest expression of the Dark Side ever perpetrated. Revan would be as confounded as Valkorion would be erect at seeing this happen.


You need to understand that:

More than any others, it is the Force-sensitive beings of the galaxy who have the greatest influence upon the balance of the Force.

Taken from Force and Destiny: Core Rulebook

Even normal beings can influence the balance of the Force through their actions:

Amid this discussion of the Jedi and Sith, it is worth noting that the Force is not set apart solely for interaction with those who can directly manipulate it. All sentient beings can choose to act in life-affirming or destructive ways. Most view their actions (and lapses) within the moral code of their species or world, or in keeping with personal creed. This does not mean that they are not acted upon by the Force, or that their actions do not contribute to the balance between the light and dark.

Taken from Force and Destiny: Core Rulebook

Therefore, if corruption and/or criminal acts become the norm in many worlds, such acts would - collectively - influence the balance of the Force. This influence will not be intentional but it will make difference nonetheless. However, same revelation has another point; that all living beings can influence the balance of the Force through their actions, and that this influence need not be intentional.

Darth(s) Plagueis and Sidious (actively) sought to tilt the balance of the Force towards the Dark Side in their era. The outcome of their effort only reinforces the notion that Force-sensitive beings can have a more profound impact on the balance of the Force than normal beings.

Now, as pointed out by member DarthAnt66 in this thread, Revan made his presence felt across the galaxy by disturbing (the balance of) the Force, after his resurrection. Of-course, several Force-sensitive beings make us (audience) aware of this development in the game.

---

Now, coming towards Valkorion; logically, some of his actions should have caused significant disturbance in the Force, and he was also powerful enough to unbalance the Force. However, TOR content writers seem to overlook this aspect in their works. I am not in the position to speak of behalf of TOR content writers here but I have some observations to share.

A large number of Jedi and Sith co-existed in ancient times. Therefore, such footprint implies an unintentional tug-of-war that would prevent the pendulum to swing in favor of one side for long.

The Force was omnipresent. It radiated stronger in certain places and at certain times, and the balance of the dark side and the light constantly shifted.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan

In addition to the above, Valkorion was not interested in making his presence felt across the galaxy or intentionally shift the balance of the Force. A major concern was that the Jedi would sense disturbance of such magnitude and respond to it. Valkorion wanted to conceal his activities from the Republic (and) the Jedi Order for as long as he deemed it necessary.

There are so many variables to consider.

Revan willing himself back to life is the greatest willpower feat in Star Wars? 😆

Palpatine did that without a Force connection.

LeGenD making great points, honestly.

I'll respond in full when I get home.

@ILS

Plagueis did this quite casually, albeit to a non-Force sensitive, but it’s certainly worth entertaining the idea that he could use this in-combat against a Force sensitive, much like he was able to heal himself while Sidious drained life from him with Force lightning. He was drunk and caught off-guard against Sidious, and was still mounting a resistance, so against a weaker being like Revan or Valkorion, Plagueis’ unrivalled mastery over life and death should prove more useful.

So Darth Plagueis achieved unparalleled mastery over life and death according to you? Where is the evidence, my friend?

Darth Plagueis reanimated the corpse of Darth Venamis but this reanimation did not last long (ergo the organs of reanimated Darth Venamis were not functioning properly and eventually faltered). And the former could not cheat or circumvent death either, when it really mattered.

On the other hand, both Revan and Valkorion cheated death. Revan did it once but Valkorion time and again. The latter also had the ability to create life (e.g. Monoliths).

Valkorion achieved unparalleled mastery over life and death; his showings are self-explanatory in these aspects.

Originally posted by Azronger
Revan willing himself back to life is the greatest willpower feat in Star Wars? 😆

Palpatine did that without a Force connection.

Not even the same feat 😬

Originally posted by AncientPower
Not even the same feat 😬

Obviously not. Palpatine's is infinitely better.

Originally posted by Azronger
Obviously not. Palpatine's is infinitely better.

FYI:

Sate Pestage, an agent of Palpatine, is stated to have a role in resurrecting Palpatine after his corporeal demise during the Battle of Endor. The source is Dark Empire III: Empire's End.

Palpatine used Sith spirits on Korriban. That's hardly something you do without a connection to the Force.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
@[B]ILS

So Darth Plagueis achieved unparalleled mastery over life and death according to you? Where is the evidence, my friend?

Darth Plagueis reanimated the corpse of Darth Venamis but this reanimation did not last long (ergo the organs of reanimated Darth Venamis were not functioning properly and eventually faltered). And the former could not cheat or circumvent death either, when it really mattered.

On the other hand, both Revan and Valkorion cheated death. Revan did it once but Valkorion time and again. The latter also had the ability to create life (e.g. Monoliths).

Valkorion achieved unparalleled mastery over life and death; his showings are self-explanatory in these aspects. [/B]

The Dread Masters could also bring others back from the dead, to a far greater extent than Plagueis did.

Lmao. I'm talking about when he's literally severed off the Force in DE by the Skywalker twins, then has his entire body with all its midi-chlorians obliterated by his dimension-altering Force Storms, yet he's on the other side of the galaxy, alive and more powerful than ever in DE II.

He literally crossed the thousands of light-years of distance between Da Soocha and Byss, while dead, as a non-Force sensitive, in the span of a few weeks/months.

Palpatine's will trancends the use of the Force.

Originally posted by Azronger
Lmao. I'm talking about when he's literally severed off the Force in DE by the Skywalker twins, then has his entire body with all its midi-chlorians obliterated by his dimension-altering Force Storms, yet he's on the other side of the galaxy, alive and more powerful than ever in DE II.

He literally crossed the thousands of light-years of distance between Da Soocha and Byss, while dead, as a non-Force sensitive, in the span of a few weeks/months.

Palpatine's will trancends the use of the Force.


What you are saying literally makes no sense.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
What you are saying literally makes no sense.

Star Wars rarely does.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
What you are saying literally makes no sense.

To you it doesn't, but it's a fair point.

Anyone who uses Essense Transfer can go lightspeed+

one of the perks of being bound to the physical realm.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
[B]Anyone who uses Essense Transfer can go lightspeed+

Source?