Originally posted by Azronger
As I said, it was retconned:Palpatine's body was destroyed. Separated from his clones, Palpatine was forced to survive in the maddening, bodiless existence of the void. Through sheer will he retained his identity, crossing the gulf of space to again take up residence in his clone body.
-The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
ILS, your argument is interesting. Interesting in the sense that it rests on a blatant double-standard that is ignored by you and every other member who considers the feat impressive. For whatever reason, you dismiss the quotes provided by the characters in Shadow of Revan, and yet consistently cite the Darth Plagueis novel as an impartial and absolute source. What's funny is that the Darth Plagueis novelization reads from the perspective of a third-person limited narrator that has, perhaps, the most biased pro-Sith view out of any novelization ever pushed in the Star Wars universe. Of course, however, let's ignore that, and yet dismiss characters like Lana Beniko or Spindrall, who have no emotional attachment to their claims and have proven to be masters of farseeing or sense capabilities.It's absolutely different. Firstly, the other Jedi and Sith didn't feel this. Only Dooku made note of it, principally due to the fact that he shares a connection and history with Savage Opress. Secondly, Dooku merely notes of how Savage Opress is getting stronger and that events are in motion that can threaten him. The characters in Shadow of Revan mention not a character getting stronger, but the disturbance in the Force increasing, encompassing nearly all aspects of the Force to the point where it's potentially affecting the minds of those in the galaxy. Not only is no comparison to be made, but the sheer thought that any parallel can be drawn is horrifying.
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Revan's done that by literally resurrecting his corpse from the dead without the use of anything other than his willpower, which is an unrivaled feat in Star Wars. In the cases of Darth Krayt and Darth Maul, those characters never actually died, but rather reached the brink of death. Revan was fully killed and came back to life, as remarked by a number of sources at the event.
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This another consistent theme in your post. On how characters like Vitiate "failed" to accomplish this, but Darth Plagueis and Palpatine succeeded.
What Darth Plagueis, and you, fail to realize is that Vitiate never even tried to do this in the first place.
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The quote you are referring two doesn't state "absolutely anyone with a connection to the Force," but rather anyone "strong in the Force." Revan's disturbance in the Force, based on all existing evidence we have, falls likewise in the same category. That being said, I have no clue why you're attributing "a chance in pattern" to not a "tangible alteration," because that blatantly fits the description." If something is changed, it is altered. If something is felt, it is tangible. In the case of Revan's unbalancing, The Force was both altered and the result was a tangible recognition of such.
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And yet the end result was nearly identical. 😂 That's exactly my entire point. Palpatine and Darth Plagueis go through this extensive, elaborate process and yet the end result is still comparable to what Revan is doing by just strolling around. Revan's mere presence is a blatant challenge to the Force, because it constitutes as a threat that is disturbing its very fabric. The disturbance that Revan's mere presence caused was "spread through" the entire galaxy, being felt by both Jedi and Sith alike. And for the final quote, again, this is from the perspective of Darth Plagueis and Palpatine. The fact you actually take that at face value is ridiclous, since we know that the Force did not "yield," since the text earlier makes note that it didn't fight back at all. Palpatine wrongfully assumed that this was due to their sheer power and will, but rather the Force opted to simply create the Chosen One to enact its will against them.
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A plethora of sourcebooks also attribute this to the dark side nexus that existed directly below the Jedi Temple, as established by the Legends publication of Force and Destiny.
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It's a more impressive display of willpower to directly rise from the dead than to study and gradually manipulate midichlorians over the course of years. I don't know how the former could conceivably be considered more impressive. That being said, the author directly stated in an interview that midichlorian manipulation has nothing to do with power, but rather Darth Plagueis' motivation and determination. Thus, anything involving it doesn't impress me. And that makes sense, too, since The Jedi Path states that *anything* is possible given enough time or concentration. I have no clue why midichlorian manipulation also doesn't fall under that umbrella. What's actually impressive is events where Force-users display their power or will immediately, since it can be translated to combat situations and compared with other characters.
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From the perspective of Darth Plagueis. 👇
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No, that's wrong. As per Palpatine, Anakin Skywalker's creation was a product of the months of deep meditation, not Darth Plagueis' meddling he did afterwards.
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No he hasn't. Darth Maul remarked that the Force felt out-of-balance with the start of the Clone Wars, thus meaning it was seemingly in a state of balance prior. That being stated, again, the biased narrator is not a legitimate source for these absurd claims that "hur, Darth Plagueis cleansed the galaxy of the entire light side!" which is blatantly untrue.
So, really, some key points to establish:
- Midichlorian manipulation has nothing to do with Force power.
- Revan's feat is directly comparable with the unbalancing considering circumstances.
- The narrator of the Darth Plagueis novelization is not omniscient.
- Anakin Skywalker was a product of the duo's war, not Darth Plagueis' solo war.
- Vitiate never attempted to unbalance the Force in the first place.
- Anything is possible given enough time and concentration.
So, in my eyes, you're foaming out the mouth on something that's not impressive. Frankly, if I could list the top hundred most impressive Force feats in history, neither the unbalancing nor midichlorian manipulation makes the list. While I expect you, and anyone else associated with the blasphemous Darth Plagueis Brigade, to completely ignore what the author stated concerning midichlorian manipulation (i.e. that it has nothing to do with power), and likewise completely take everything the Darth Plagueis novel to heart without considering what side is being portrayed there (i.e. that of the Sith), don't expect me to not laugh over it. 😉 [/B]
Excellent reply Ant