There is a difference between a man calling himself God and God becoming man. As for the Trinity, they are not seperate in the sense of Zeus is seperate from Hera, etc., but seperate as in perform different functions. It is like you mouth, your eye and your hand. Each is you, but your eyes cannot chew and your hands cannot see. It is the same with God. Each part of the Triune God has a purpose, but they are all the same.
The Right and the Original Jesus Christ Part 1 of 2
No man has ever lived in this world and touched the lives of so great a number of people than our Lord Jesus Christ. His life has always been a great source of inspiration and hope to humanity. Countless people have placed their faith in Him and are looking forward to His second coming when he will reward His servants with eternal bliss in His Father’s heavenly abode.
But our recognition of Him ought to be in accordance with what the Bible prescribes. Anything beyond this would go against the expressed will of God.
In his second epistle to the Christians in Corinth, Apostle Paul forewarned the coming of false teachers “who would preach another Jesus,” a Jesus whom the apostles did not preach. The Jesus whom the apostles preached is certainly no ordinary human being, since He committed no sin and was vested with many powers and divine attributes, but this same Jesus is still a human being nevertheless. Jesus Himself never claimed that He is God. His apostles called Him the Son of God, the Head of the Church, the Lord and Savior, the Mediator between God and men, but they did not fail to teach that He is a man. For that is truly what He is, as He Himself attested: “But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God;” (John 8:40, NKJV)
What was the belief of early Christians regarding our Lord Jesus Christ? Let’s try to see the comments made by some biblical scholars.
George Eldon Ladd, a Protestant scholar, The Young Church:
Ronald J. Wilkins, a Catholic Priest, The Emerging Church, Part One:
Bernhard Lohse, a Church historian, Motivation for Belief:George M. Lamsa, New Testament Commentary:John A.T. Robinson, an Anglican Church official, Honest to God:
Let us now quote some biblical truths regarding our Lord Jesus Christ.
“But now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth which I heard from God; this is not what Abraham did.”
John 8:40
“For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,”
I Timothy 2:5
“Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him as you yourselves know. This man was handed to you over by God’s set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.”
Acts 2:22-23
But as long as the apostles were alive to defend the true faith, the teaching on Christ was held in check. As early as their time, the apostles warned about the possible deviation from the original teaching concerning Christ.
“I am afraid that your minds will be corrupted and that you will abandon your full and pure devotion to Christ – in the same way that Eve was deceived by the snake’s clever lies. For you gladly tolerate anyone who comes to you and preaches a different Jesus, not the one we preached; and you accept a spirit and a gospel completely different from the Spirit and gospel you received from us.”
II Corinthians 11:3-4,
The Right and the Original Jesus Christ part 2 of 2
The doctrine on the deity of Christ was defined only when the Council of Nicaea convened in the fourth century – over 200 years after the Bible had been completed; all the apostles were already dead at that time. Even prior to the formalization of the Christ-is-God doctrine, there were people already upholding this doctrine, Ignatius of Antioch, a bishop, was the one who introduced the teaching that Christ is God. This doctrine did not originate from the apostles. The warning of Apostle Paul concerning the teaching of different Jesus, thus, started to be realized. But this did not readily gain acceptance among the people.
When the controversy regarding the nature of Christ became serious, the unity of the empire and of the Roman Church was threatened. This prompted no less than the roman emperor to intervene. He attempted to resolve the conflict by convening a council of bishops.
Constantine was only concerned about keeping or restoring peace and unity and the important role that the Catholic Church would have in his empire. Thus, whether or not the disputing officials of the Church agree on Christ’s alleged deity or on His humanity was of no bearing to Constantine as long as they would settle to only one stand that could promote unity.
So, what did Constantine do to influence the bishops who convened so that his interests and wishes would be served well?
The hospitable accommodation granted to the bishops by no less than the emperor himself was enough to influence their decision on the issue. In fact, they could not help but yield to the demands of the emperor as an expression of their gratitude for all the favors they had enjoyed during the meeting. Thus, when the decision was to be called for, it was the emperor’s will that prevailed.
Finally, in 325 AD, the council concluded with the decision in response to the order of the emperor. From then on, Christ has been recognized by the Catholic Church as God.
Jesus Christ is a man. Nowhere in the Bible can be found that He is God. Christ is not and never been the true God. He is the Son of God, the Savior, the Head of the Church, the Mediator, the Lord, and everything that God made Him to be, but He is a man. The true Christ is a man, not a God. This is the original doctrine upheld by the early Christians, not the dogma formulated by the bishops of the Catholic Church and formalized at the Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D.
For a true Christian, nothing can be more important than to uphold the true words of God that serve as a firm foundation upon which he is anchored. Such is the characteristic that he should possess for him to become firm and steadfast.
“Then we shall no longer be children, carried by the waves and blown about by every shifting wind of the teaching of deceitful people, who lead others into error by the tricks they invent.”
Ephesians 4:14
John 10:29, 30 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are One."
1 Timothy 2:5 "For there is one God, and there is one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,"
Last edited by ska57 on Nov 10th, 2004 at 04:56 PM
John 10:29, 30 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are One."
1 Timothy 2:5 "For there is one God, and there is one Mediator between God and men, the Man is Christ Jesus,"
I just cannot be bothered to bat theology back and forth with somebody till someone's internet connections go down for a day or two, or someone gets ill, etc, and we move on.
First verse: try to go on the preceding verse/s... you will learn why or in what way do God and Christ are one.
...you'll learn that they (God and Christ) are one in taking care of the "flock". ... not of being God.
Second verse: What's wrong with the verse.. it only emphasize that there is only one God, and this is the Father... and also there is one Mediator between God and men... and this man is Christ.
Seems a bit similar to some aspect of Hindu beliefs. They have many gods that are aspects of three major ones, Vishnu, Brahma and Shiva, who while being individuals are also part of one overall god. So many into three into one.
__________________
From even the greatest of horrors irony is seldom absent.
You guys sure know your bible.Wow!Thanks for the information it is very interesting!JM
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"First verse: try to go on the preceding verse/s... you will learn why or in what way do God and Christ are one.
...you'll learn that they (God and Christ) are one in taking care of the "flock". ... not of being God."
It also says that people like you will not understand because you are not of His sheep. Jesus said He was one with God, and the second verse says that there is one God, so that proves that Jesus and God are one.
The bible also says that a man and wife shall be as one.
Mat 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
Mat 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Jesus is the Son of God, if he was not, then who was he praying to and why would he pray to himself?
When Jesus was being baptized: Luke 3:21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,
Luke 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
Again, was he talking from above to himself while he was being baptized telling himself he was well pleased?
Who is sitting on the Right hand of God?
Its clear that you are not wanting to discuss this topic so why be in this thread? The issue here is not rather or not God or Jesus exist, in this thread, it's if they do exist, are they one. Read the other post. I was asking questions and wanting to discuss the issue at hand.
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Nov 10th, 2004 11:29 AM
