Sidious - The Debate

We have all labored under the delusion that Marka Ragnos or Exar Kun are perhaps the two most powerful Sith Lords alive. Or the other Ancient Sith, as well as the fanatic KOTOR fanboys who assume Revan is the most powerful guy walkin' - despite us knowing not a damn thing about him.

Lightsnake, a new member, came to the forums and may have changed all of that. He came saying that Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord to exist. A lot of us - including me, at first - were skeptical. But he has given more proof than any one else has regarding this issue.

He may have the proof that could change this entire debate. Strange, it seems. But let him speak his mind. If you don't have proof against him, shut the hell up and let him offer his.

Pleas elaborate on this "proof' he has given.

Page 109 from the Dark Empire sourcebook:

"Palpatine has risen from the dead. The most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived had returned."

Empire's End, one of the Sith spirits: "He gave up everything to the Dark Side long ago. He has become the greatest who ever lived. He is the strongest who ever lived....I say we give what he wishes."

Star Wars Insider, Kevin J. Anderson, upon asked if he ever intended his Sith to be stronger than the OT sith: "No. Exar Kun, Naga Sadow and the others are on a firmly lower tier than Emperor Palpatine."

On TFN.net, official response to the strongest Sith: "Palpatine at his peak."

Essential Chronology: "the most powerful Sith who had ever lived, Emperor Palpatine had returned from the grave."

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Lucrative it may appear, Se7in, it is also far more proof given from any other source regarding who holds the highest position of power.

He's an arrogant person, I'll admit. But he's brave and dares to challenge the indoctrinization of 'Sidious sucks', in such a way that I'd not even cross. The difference is, he can back up his words. So far, all of his critics haven't been able to do that.

Let them come here. So far, he's outdone 'em.

I think all that about summed it up.

Thank you, Escape. I promise to confine the arrogance and insults. I open by saying a bold statement and will offer more if asked: Sidious is indeed the strongest of all time, confirmed in several sources, first in the original piece of EU Dark Empire. In that comic, Sidious manages to cheat death several times, forcing his spirit into other bodies. He devours the life force of six billion inhabitants of the world Byss but doesn't kill them, showing control. In addition, at the end, he squares off with Luke in combat and by this point, Luke is referred to as very powerful. Palpatine focuses his rage and annihilates a fleet of ships with a force storm.

There is never anything to indicate this is different from the Sidious we see in the trilogies.

Moreover, when he visits Korriban, he is hailed at by the Sith, mocked by several but in the end they acquiesce to his wish when he demands it of them, saying he gave up everything to the Dark Side...in another source, Dark Lord, I believe, it is revealed Sidious was prophesized as the greatest by the Ancient Sith themselves. The creator of the ancient Sith, Kevin Anderson, vile Dune destroying heretic he is, said he never intended Sidious to be below his creations.

Another argument is 'Why does he never show this in ROTS?"

Same reason why Yoda isn't leaping around Luke like a madman: Both technology constraints...and that he doesn't need to. We could have quiet control from sidious or he could milk a few giant cows, wave his arms and level some buildings...and with Yoda, vaporizing half of Coruscant would probably not be such a good idea.

I'll most certainly say Vader was weaker as was as a lot of Ancient Sith, but probably greater than a lot of others. At the boards I frequent, it's been a huge debate against him and Revan.

Lightsnake, it doesn't matter. I'm friends with a lot of the people you are arguing against, but that doesn't matter. As much as I respect Fishy and the others, they're going to have to shut the hell up unless they have proof against it.

So far, you've beat 'em all.

(Fishy, Blind Guardian, Traya, ect - A message. Lightsnake has more proof to this subject than you all have mustered. You've put him on the spot and such, and have insulted him. I do not tolerate his arrogance either, and he has promised to tone it down. So far though, he's kicked your asses on this debate. Sidious may just be the most powerful after all)

I will say this though: Ragnos, Kun, Revan and the like were undoubtedly power houses. A lot of what the ancients suffer from is KJA's terrible terms of scale (IE: The Sith War, the Great Hyperspace war) and his massive inflation of what the Force can do... (Ironically where a lot of Luke's stuff came from)

And this man paired up Luke with Callista. And Winter and Admiral ackbar..../bad/

While I'm at it: I do extend an apology to Fishy and Traya

Lightsnake, I do want to know something if you don't mind. Do you consider Sidious the strongest force user ever, or just the strongest sith. I assume you put NJO Luke above him, but I don't want to be to presumptuous.

The strongest Sith, definitely. I consider some people on the Jedi side to be his equal or better.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
The strongest Sith, definitely. I consider some people on the Jedi side to be his equal or better.

I see, thank you

I would say strongest Sith, myself.

Good thing Ianus and Sorgo aren't here; they'd bash him until he bleeds from his fingertips from trying to type responses. *shakes head*

There's also the evidence that Sidious hid himself from the Jedi for years in plain sight, took control of the Republic by political means, and overthrew the Republic. No other Sith Lord did that, even with huge fleets and immense power.

Originally posted by Captain REX
I would say strongest Sith, myself.

Good thing Ianus and Sorgo aren't here; they'd bash him until he bleeds from his fingertips from trying to type responses. *shakes head*

There's also the evidence that Sidious hid himself from the Jedi for years in plain sight, took control of the Republic by political means, and overthrew the Republic. No other Sith Lord did that, even with huge fleets and immense power.

Ianus is the closest thing I have to a KMC mentor, who took me under his wings. I respect him a lot, but even then. . . Lightsnake has proof that no one has been able to dispute. Not even Ianus I think could win this debate. I like Sorgo too, but . . .

Regarding that. I'm not saying Sidious is head and shoulders above all of them. He has rivals. But you're right, Glen. All Sidious did to takeover the Republic was rely on his wits. He didn't need fleets or armies.

That's true....I once did a big parody on a board about that if any cares to see it.
"Sidious stole Palpatine's speeder!"
"Quick, check for fingerprints!"
"Damn, just Palpatine's....Sidious must have been wearing gloves..."

And Ianus and Sorgo? They are...?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
That's true....I once did a big parody on a board about that if any cares to see it.
"Sidious stole Palpatine's speeder!"
"Quick, check for fingerprints!"
"Damn, just Palpatine's....Sidious must have been wearing gloves..."

And Ianus and Sorgo? They are...?

Ianus ranks perhaps third or second amongst the SW EU debators. He is a good guy and all, and has a deep sense of humor. But he's also pretty stubborn at times, and it led to his banning . . . I hope he gets back. Sorgo's a pretty good guy too. He's a vicious debator. He makes you all look like Saints. He's pretty skilled and witty, but he is an immense Dooku fanboy. He and I have argued on that topic many times. He thinks that Dooku could take Sidious (despite my disagreeing). He is also banned.

EU Forums Debators.

1. Faunus
2. Ianus
3. IKC
4. Illustrious
5. Nai Fohl

These are the big five.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
That's true....I once did a big parody on a board about that if any cares to see it.
"Sidious stole Palpatine's speeder!"
"Quick, check for fingerprints!"
"Damn, just Palpatine's....Sidious must have been wearing gloves..."

And Ianus and Sorgo? They are...?

Respectively, number 1 and 2 on this board. Ianus is actually quite good, he generally bases his arguments on actual facts, not speculation. Though, he still seems to overhype the older sith a bit at times.

Originally posted by Pwned61
Respectively, number 1 and 2 on this board. Ianus is actually quite good, he generally bases his arguments on actual facts, not speculation. Though, he still seems to overhype the older sith a bit at times.

Sorgo's good. But he's no Number Two. I don't consider myself among the elite of the KMC debating session, despite others disagreeing with me. And I've beat Sorgo before. He's in the Top Ten. But not Number Two.

Originally posted by Escape81
Ianus ranks perhaps third or second amongst the SW EU debators. He is a good guy and all, and has a deep sense of humor. But he's also pretty stubborn at times, and it led to his banning . . . I hope he gets back. Sorgo's a pretty good guy too. He's a vicious debator. He makes you all look like Saints. He's pretty skilled and witty, but he is an immense Dooku fanboy. He and I have argued on that topic many times. He thinks that Dooku could take Sidious (despite my disagreeing). He is also banned.

EU Forums Debators.

1. Faunus
2. Ianus
3. IKC
4. Illustrious
5. Nai Fohl

These are the big five.

Really, I'd put sorgo up there, maybe not #2 as I originally put, But I've just never been fond of a couple of the guys you mentioned. meh, you know more about this board than I do of course.

While I agree Dooku rocks, take Sidious? That'd be quite a feat as he's below Yoda who's equal to Sidious and is the Apprentice...

Ah, but then....Count Dooku is truly Count Dracula, so that may tip the scales...