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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » A Serious Question: Galen Marek stronger than Vader?


A Serious Question: Galen Marek stronger than Vader?
Started by: Darth Truculent

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BoratBorat
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Hell yes. Single digit IQ too.

Old Post Mar 7th, 2009 04:32 AM
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Happy_Sith
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2008
Location: United Kingdom


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DorianYates
[B]Nice attempt to irritate me *yawns*



Thanks, but why are you yawning?

Old Post Mar 11th, 2009 10:37 PM
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Zamp
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Happy_Sith
Thanks, but why are you yawning?


He was implying that your post was not interesting, even as an example of incompetence.


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Old Post Mar 11th, 2009 10:49 PM
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Slash_KMC
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While the dictionary tells us that yawning is caused by being fatigued, drowsy or bored, scientists are discovering that there is more to yawning than what most people think. Not much is known about why we yawn or if it serves any useful function, and very little research has been done on the subject. However, there are several theories about why we yawn. Here are the three most common theories:

The Physiological Theory -- Our bodies induce yawning to drawn in more oxygen or remove a build-up of carbon dioxide. This theory helps explain why we yawn in groups. Larger groups produce more carbon dioxide, which means our bodies would act to draw in more oxygen and get rid of the excess carbon dioxide. However, if our bodies make us yawn to drawn in needed oxygen, wouldn't we yawn during exercise? Robert Provine, a psychologist at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County, and a leading expert on yawning, has tested this theory. Giving people additional oxygen didn't decrease yawning and decreasing the amount of carbon dioxide in a subject's environment also didn't prevent yawning.

The Evolution Theory -- Some think that yawning is something that began with our ancestors, who used yawning to show their teeth and intimidate others. An offshoot of this theory is the idea that yawning developed from early man as a signal for us to change activities.

The Boredom Theory -- In the dictionary, yawning is said to be caused by boredom, fatigue or drowsiness. Although we do tend to yawn when bored or tired, this theory doesn't explain why Olympic athletes yawn right before they compete in their event. It's doubtful that they are bored with the world watching them.

source: http://www.howstuffworks.com/question572.htm


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Old Post Mar 11th, 2009 10:49 PM
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Happy_Sith
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
He was implying that your post was not interesting, even as an example of incompetence.



Odd. I am not sure why he would quote it if he was not the least bit interested. I certainly have interest in posts I quote.

Otherwise, I would not quote them.

Old Post Mar 11th, 2009 10:54 PM
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Zamp
The Blind Critic

Registered: Jun 2007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Slash_KMC
While the dictionary tells us that yawning is caused by being fatigued, drowsy or bored, scientists are discovering that there is more to yawning than what most people think. Not much is known about why we yawn or if it serves any useful function, and very little research has been done on the subject. However, there are several theories about why we yawn. Here are the three most common theories:

The Physiological Theory -- Our bodies induce yawning to drawn in more oxygen or remove a build-up of carbon dioxide. This theory helps explain why we yawn in groups. Larger groups produce more carbon dioxide, which means our bodies would act to draw in more oxygen and get rid of the excess carbon dioxide. However, if our bodies make us yawn to drawn in needed oxygen, wouldn't we yawn during exercise? Robert Provine, a psychologist at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County, and a leading expert on yawning, has tested this theory. Giving people additional oxygen didn't decrease yawning and decreasing the amount of carbon dioxide in a subject's environment also didn't prevent yawning.

The Evolution Theory -- Some think that yawning is something that began with our ancestors, who used yawning to show their teeth and intimidate others. An offshoot of this theory is the idea that yawning developed from early man as a signal for us to change activities.

The Boredom Theory -- In the dictionary, yawning is said to be caused by boredom, fatigue or drowsiness. Although we do tend to yawn when bored or tired, this theory doesn't explain why Olympic athletes yawn right before they compete in their event. It's doubtful that they are bored with the world watching them.

source: http://www.howstuffworks.com/question572.htm


laughing

laughing out loud

I laughed out loud. Srsly.


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Old Post Mar 11th, 2009 10:55 PM
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Happy_Sith
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quote: (post)



The Evolution Theory -- Some think that yawning is something that began with our ancestors, who used yawning to show their teeth and intimidate others. An offshoot of this theory is the idea that yawning developed from early man as a signal for us to change activities.



Very interesting actually. I saw an episode of Mythbusters that covered yawning, but the evolutionary theory was not touched on.

Here is a better link:

http://mythbustersresults.com/episode28

Last edited by Happy_Sith on Mar 11th, 2009 at 11:07 PM

Old Post Mar 11th, 2009 10:57 PM
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Allankles
Kwisatz Haderach

Registered: Jan 2007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Slash_KMC
While the dictionary tells us that yawning is caused by being fatigued, drowsy or bored, scientists are discovering that there is more to yawning than what most people think. Not much is known about why we yawn or if it serves any useful function, and very little research has been done on the subject. However, there are several theories about why we yawn. Here are the three most common theories:

The Physiological Theory -- Our bodies induce yawning to drawn in more oxygen or remove a build-up of carbon dioxide. This theory helps explain why we yawn in groups. Larger groups produce more carbon dioxide, which means our bodies would act to draw in more oxygen and get rid of the excess carbon dioxide. However, if our bodies make us yawn to drawn in needed oxygen, wouldn't we yawn during exercise? Robert Provine, a psychologist at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County, and a leading expert on yawning, has tested this theory. Giving people additional oxygen didn't decrease yawning and decreasing the amount of carbon dioxide in a subject's environment also didn't prevent yawning.

The Evolution Theory -- Some think that yawning is something that began with our ancestors, who used yawning to show their teeth and intimidate others. An offshoot of this theory is the idea that yawning developed from early man as a signal for us to change activities.

The Boredom Theory -- In the dictionary, yawning is said to be caused by boredom, fatigue or drowsiness. Although we do tend to yawn when bored or tired, this theory doesn't explain why Olympic athletes yawn right before they compete in their event. It's doubtful that they are bored with the world watching them.

source: http://www.howstuffworks.com/question572.htm


We yawn to cool our brains.


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Old Post Mar 11th, 2009 10:59 PM
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CadoAngelus
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Lucas had RotS to ANH phobia...he didn't want to touch it with a rubber glove on, but the people who wrote the story for lucas to approve were brave, and lucas gave into his deepest darkest fear

tbh, i think it was a good game, and though people have trouble linking in canonically to the film saga, i thought it tied the 6 films together. sure there were places where i though "wtf is going on here", but other than that it explains where the rebellion came from to same extent. and it explains why palpatine is reluctant to show himself to many people...

the literature, i think, would be more canon though. simply because of the differing circumstances in cutscenes, and of course...everyone can buy a book, not everyone has a games console


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Old Post Mar 21st, 2009 12:12 AM
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Barringer
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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: United States


 

I never understood why Vader apparently became weak because of his lava bath. If we're going to take the midi-chlorian argument, that he lost a lot of them when he lost his limbs and his skin was torched, well:

A) He still has more midi-chlorians per cell than Yoda

B) He probably still has more cells than Yoda

Therefore, Vader should still be pretty darn powerful, even moreso than Yoda, especially when you factor in the fact that the dark side is apparently stronger (according to Lucas on the AOTC commentary track).

But I never thought that midi-chlorians were even "power level" indicators to begin with, but just natural aptitude with the Force. Rather than "ceiling" to your potential, midi-chlorians just give you a stronger connection to the Force before you actually work at it. This would seem to be reinforced by Yoda saying "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter."

"But Sith power resided not in the flesh but in the will... Vader's real weaknesses were psychological rather than physical, and for Vader to overcome them he would need to be driven deeper into himself, to confront all his choices and his disappointments." - Sidious, Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader

As for the actual question at hand, I'll answer it indirectly... Galen Marek wasn't more powerful than Sidious. Sidious was trying to convert Marek to the dark side to become his apprentice, and gave him the illusion that he was defeated. This is particularly clear in the non-canon dark side ending, when Sidious doesn't joke around and just beats him like a drum.

As for whether Marek was more powerful than Vader, I think Sidious' desire to replace Vader stemmed more from his psychological damage and the side effects of his cybernetic limbs, which didn't weaken him literally, but robbed him of the ability to summon Force lightning, and possibly other things.

And based upon my view of the midi-chlorians, Marek certainly could have become more powerful than Vader by strengthening his connection to the Force through training, and he wouldn't have had the same psychological damage and cybernetic limbs.

But that's just my interpretation, and it could certainly be flawed if not wrong.

Old Post Mar 21st, 2009 12:43 AM
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Lord Lucien
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Vader's weakened state was due largely to his mental condition following Mustafar. To him he had: been betrayed, wiped out his family (for all intents and purposes), become a mechanical monster, and realized about a month following RoTS that Palpatine was an evil bastard who had manipulated him for years.

Not having any natural limbs and an irreparable respiratory system would be a hamper too.


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Old Post Mar 21st, 2009 01:11 AM
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Darth Truculent
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Barringer, IMO Marek had the possible potential to surpass Sidious in the Force. At his death, he had really not even begun his Jedi training. What if he completed it on Dagobah with Yoda? As to Vader losing midi-chlorian count, I beg to differ. Just because you lost your limbs doesn't mean you lost the number of midi-chlorian count per cell.


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Old Post Mar 21st, 2009 02:41 AM
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Barringer
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Barringer, IMO Marek had the possible potential to surpass Sidious in the Force. At his death, he had really not even begun his Jedi training. What if he completed it on Dagobah with Yoda? As to Vader losing midi-chlorian count, I beg to differ. Just because you lost your limbs doesn't mean you lost the number of midi-chlorian count per cell.


I agree about the midi-chlorians. Either you misunderstood me or I didn't articulate myself well about that.

Old Post Mar 21st, 2009 02:58 AM
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Darth Truculent
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Sorry about that - just read something that I took offense too: how can a stormtrooper defeat a US Marine? NEVER!


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Old Post Mar 21st, 2009 03:02 AM
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BoratBorat
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Happy_Sith
Odd. I am not sure why he would quote it if he was not the least bit interested. I certainly have interest in posts I quote.

Otherwise, I would not quote them.
Simple, it was to blatantly show out that i was bored at your post.

Old Post Mar 21st, 2009 04:02 AM
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CadoAngelus
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Vader's weakened state was due largely to his mental condition following Mustafar.


And his sith armour that's keeping him alive, it restricts his movement compaired to sith/jedi that have training from a young age. He's still geting used to the movement he's had to adopt and the limitations to all of his limbs, like how far he can bend them.

This why when he becomes suited Vader, he changes his fighting style. I notice though that Anakins stance did change with his maturity (i.e. Ep2: arc'd over his back, Ep3: tilted to one side covering his body, Vader Ep4-Ep6: points his saber foward with the hilt end almost touching the bottom of his torso...if other people can be more elaborate, corrections would be cool


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Old Post Mar 21st, 2009 11:25 AM
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darthbane99
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I disagree that vader was to hampered. The energy doent function through mechanical means,like his body and machine parts,yet some say its because the machinery is why he had weakened,without nerve endings,the energy could have not passed through the entire nervous system and would not beable to use the force to its fullest;eg such as lightning.

Again Even machines are part of the force,just not very good conductors and for that reason vader wasnt as powerful,but so long as he could will the energy,it shouldnt have hampered him much. All it takes is a desire and focus to use it.

Technically i figured vader more poweeful then starkiller,thats why i had a seperate post on starkillers powers and strength. Im conviced though if starkiller where to have more time to develope he may of been stronger then vader. So vader in a young state could of crushed starkiller..but vader in an old stae could not.

Last edited by darthbane99 on Mar 21st, 2009 at 11:43 AM

Old Post Mar 21st, 2009 11:32 AM
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CadoAngelus
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by darthbane99
would not beable to use the force to its fullest;eg such as lightning.


I agree with that, tis a shame though. Would of been cool to see vader use force lightning, but he probably would of killed himself...i mean, look what it did to him when he was trying to kill palpatine...


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Old Post Mar 21st, 2009 11:43 AM
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darthbane99
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Hey your online,at the same time! Well its true why is it so hard to control it with a suit of Amory

Old Post Mar 21st, 2009 11:46 AM
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CadoAngelus
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It was like that in KOTOR i remember, if you wore the sith armour you'd loose health or not even been able to use lightning...can't remember which

you were right about garen, if he'd trained more as a jedi, sidious would of been toast...burnt, smelly toast.


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Old Post Mar 21st, 2009 11:53 AM
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