Ben was Luke's mentor... the only one that could teach him to become 'a Jedi like his father'. Losing him means that desire cannot be fulfilled... It's not that hard.
There it is, in your own quote: in a cause or contest! What is Anakin's cause? Or contest?
If it's becoming the greatest Jedi then I have pointed out many times now that the many conflict situations in the PT have no effect or consequence for his cause.
The complexity of the PT is not the problem. I like complex films. My problem is that the PT is very poor at transferring the complexity and it's meaning.
Oh no, these 'obstacles' are quite awesome. The PT has some very awesome moments. But they don't have any effect on Anakin's cause. That is my argument. Well, they do have an effect, it makes him grumpy and angry and sad and distraught... but that is one predictable, continuous movement, as you argued your self. So it is boring, his personality is shallow... all events have the same effect on him...
I'm pretty sure there are also many SW fans who are equally disappointed in the PT.
The prequels sucked. They jigsawed between emotionally stunted and annoyingly over-emotional. Over-complex and over-kiddy. Mind-numbingly stupid and borderline retarded. I realise those last two aren't opposite but...... yeah.
I don't know why you guys are bothering to compare the two trilogies really. The prequels just failed. Comparisons aren't going to stop that from being true. The main difference is that while Luke matures over 3 full movies of character development from a naive teenager filled with wanderlust to a mature man, Anakin goes from a sitcom-esque, overly cheerful little shit to a whiney little ***** to an angry whiney little *****. Luke is likeable. Anakin is always completely loathsome. The entire point of the prequels was to highlight the tragedy of Anakins fall to the darkside. Instead it just annoyed and pissed us off because a character that we once loved and feared was brought low by the horrifyingly bad storytelling present in the PT. How are we supposed to feel bad about a character with no good qualities whatsoever? The PT was a character piece, and as a character piece it utterly failed.
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Last edited by Nephthys on Feb 10th, 2011 at 09:01 PM
For me I felt bad for Anakin in the end. He did everything he could to save padme after having his dreams of loosing his mother and he's the one who ended up killing her. For me the movies were good and I did feel something for the characters.
Indeed. Ben wasn't lost "at all" and appeared to luke as a ghost.
In fact, I do not see why Obi just didn't teach Luke, himself, on some far away planet. I guess it's possible that Yoda is the far better Jedi instructor.
Yeah, if Obi-Wan could manifest himself as a ghost, he might as well have trained Luke instead of Yoda.
Oh my, guess this is a big OT plot hole that should be second guessed to death.
Ya know, cause Obi-Wan did say, "If you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine." So wouldn't he now be "beyond Yoda" at this point? Hang on...gotta go make a 9 part Youtube episode on this argument and start second guessing everything to death.
I'll let you all know when the video is complete.........which will be probably never.
I think the movie suggests there are limits to what ghosts can do. Ben said it himself: "When you chose to face Vader, i cannot interfere." Why? He was used to take on Sith lords with another Jedi. Ergo: OB1 says he can appear but he is very limited.
So what did he do? Other than pledge allegiance to a bad guy he was first turning in? He didn't do anything but feel bad...
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Last edited by queeq on Feb 12th, 2011 at 09:13 AM
It would appear the line about "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine." is actually an abandoned "vestigial plot."
Something like 'force ghost taunt' would be an acceptable use as a force ghost, imo. It would be kind of cool to have a "Micky" character in Luke's corner as he fights Vader.
I think that "more powerful than you could possibly imagine" is justified in that Obi Wan can pretty much appear anywhere he wants to: he travels thousands of light-years like they are nothing, to appear to Luke. Obi Wan, at that point, has free reign to appear anywhere and glean information from anywhere for the good guys. (A plot hole that other people have already pointed out before I was even born.) Why is it that Obi Wan did not tell the rebels about the Death Star II was "armed and fully operational"? That's just one of many things Obi Wan COULD have done, but didn't. Was it more of a "hands-off" approach because he was already denying the natural order of things by holding onto his will and retaining a ghostly form? Maybe. I just think things could have been better had the Ghosts been used more effectively in both the PT and OT.
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: On cloud 9 in 7th heaven! I didn't
I'm sorry, I know this is older, but that made me laugh really hard. I could just see Luke hiding under the stairs, Vader looking for him, and all of a sudden OB1's ghost pops up, "Luke!! I din't hear no bell! GET UP, you sunnovab!tch..... cause Obi luvs ya....."
Feb 10th, 2011 05:09 PM
