I really dont know whether to waste my time on the above or not. Assuming I get free time tomorrow, I may consider it.
Literally everything relevant is just straight up wrong. You have either outright given deliberately twisted perspectives or have written straight up false stuff. I daresay this brings your credibility to null. Not surprising considering quite a few others have the same opinion.
If anything, blame the writer for their work and use of weird wording, not me.
If Obi-Wan really knew Force drain; he would rather use it on other life-forms for siphon, not Luke's Force signature. Heck, he would have used it on the Dark Jedi instead Luke.
Here you just presented Obi-Wan's reaction when baby Luke fainted due to him amplifying Obi-Wan's power when they created their Force bond. That's why the writer even references the ROTS scene where Anakin Force chokes Padme. Due to what he did, Luke was hurt and he thought it was a dark side ability.
Anyway, DA66 said it is not part of the Legends' timeline.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Last edited by Freedon Nadd on Jan 15th, 2018 at 08:23 PM
- Drain, or one of it's variants, is known by Jedi in the TOTJ era as per the Tales of the Jedi Companion.
- In that book, the Illusions and electronic manipulation are classed as dark side techniques, correct, but no where is it alluded to that they couldn't be used with caution for those who sought out such knowledge. The TOTJ companion, written form the perspective of Ood Bnar, mentions how the knowledge has recently resurfaced, but given his own age (a tree man who's lived over 1000 years before Kun's time) the term "recently" might mean something very different to us than to him.
- The text LOTL brought up even mentions how Force illusions are still considered dark side powers in modern times, but that Qui Gon taught Kenobi regardless. That is not the same as "TOTJ Jedi council masters can't do illusions while PT Neophyts can". Especially when you consider Jinn's status among the jedi as a maverick rule bender at the time.
In the context of what this forum is about (versus battles) the revelation of Obi Wan performing weak variants of illusion and drain (using it on a baby) aren't really game changers to how well he does against the Jedi from 400 years prior. As far as combat is concerned, they had the basis covers. For example, Nomi Sunraider, who was just a knight at the time, dispelling malicious illusions against Keto. And Ulic Qel droma of course, using a unique ability to counter drain, something that Yoda and Mace Windu couldn't teach Anakin. That's a pretty big deal btw. Because if either two aren't confident in facing a forest tier death field that uniformly distributes it's power across a vast area, than you can practically garauntee that a planet eater, who can pick out singular targets to be the victim of his will, is going to stomp them. It also opens up other hypothetical future battles.
All good and ok, bro. Point is that Obi-Wan didn't use Force drain; it was a Force bond that benefited Obi-Wan by establishing a connection with Luke(and being amplified due to that Force bond) that rendered Luke unconscious due to Luke strengthening Obi-Wan's power. No Force drain involved. If Obi-Wan knew Force drain; he'd have used it on the Dark Jedi. Lol
Really I am the only one who understands that Kenobi didn't use Force drain in this scene?! :
Yeah, as I said too. Just because they were classified as dark side powers that doesn't mean Jedi Masters didn't teach their apprentices back in the days of The Old Republic.
As about the Dark Reaper Immunity; I think I found the explanation. You just have to visit my thread.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Last edited by Freedon Nadd on Jan 16th, 2018 at 12:00 AM
One thing I recall in TotJ is that regular Jedi could repel blaster bolts and more with their hands like Vader does in ESB, which I'm pretty sure is a very rare technique in PT times.
You should see what Ulic was deflecting with that power.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
It wouldn't matter Neph, the blaster technology is one thing that has certifiably improved over that 4000 year time period.
Jedi techniques, weapons, martial arts forms, armour on the other hand have pretty much stayed exactly the same. Which basically negates half of this thread.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
First of all: None of us above did. DA66 did. But he has a source to back it up.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
I didn't say you did, I'm saying times have changed. There was once a time when just being from the ancient eras was a free pass to be more powerful than anyone in the modern era. That was genuine bias.
Now we rely on more critical analysis, though the ancient eras are now the disadvantaged ones since they're comparatively underwritten. They're also disadvantaged because the facts don't side with them.
Times changed. Knowledge has been lost. DA66 has a source to back it up that TOR was the Jedi Golden Age
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
That quote refers to the numbers of warriors in the Order, not necessarily the average quality of swordsmen. And that's because, rather stupidly, the PT Jedi Order only has about 10,000 members despite enjoying a millennium of peace.
I just think that false equivalencies from real world history like this:
Can't really be applied to Jedi in a fictional type-III galactic civilisation. The difference between a roman centurion and medieval knight is vast in comparison in regards to armour, weaponry and training. As for the Jedi :
Weaponry advancement : The Lightsaber is literally the same for 4000 years
Armour : ??? Jedi are wearing less of it in modern times ...
Martial arts : The Jedi pretty much use the same seven forms
Jedi Techniques : Not really much different here either
Last edited by Conty on Jan 16th, 2018 at 12:57 AM
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Yeah, but draining of sentient beings isnt. Forget that, the Jedi were unaware that such a concept even existed, even from the Sith point of view.
For electronic manipulation, it is flat out stated that the Jedi are simply unable to use it without entering a deep state of rage.
As for illusions, they are outright classified as one of the main Sith disciplines. They arent written alongside dark side powers that the Jedi knew( I also didnt see on the tabulated list of Jedi powers, whereas force drain was). There is a difference.
Next, no, Ood Bnar compiles this around 3998 BBY, and the present timeline is exactly as such. Recent times means times around this date. Arguing for intent is pretty baseless here because from the readers perspective the creators of the companion obviously refer to the dates that are very close to it. Not to mention, Ood Bnar writes this for the future generation of Jedi and will take their perspective into account, not his.
No, the text states that Memory Wipe(another power that the Jedi classified as a Sith power and were unaware of its existence till lately) is inclined towards the dark side, yes. And it does translate into "PT neophytes can do this and the Council Masters cannot" because that is exactly what it is.
Man come on. Jinn may be a maverick Jedi who may "overlook" the more orthodox traditions of the Council, but he is not going to fool around with the dark side any more than a Master like Yoda will, which has been made clear time and again. Heck, he outright refused to accept Obi Wan as his padawan, despite Obi Wan stomping the other Jedi candidate, simply because he fought ferociously and with an intent to end the fight quickly.
The point of that is to show that Obi Wan can do those things( yes Nadd he can, your repeated parroting of pretty bad arguments doesnt change a thing). He used illusion to morph himself, by the way.
That was with the use of force light, which the PT Jedi were pretty proficient in.
I am unaware of the event in detail and I havent played the game, so I cant really comment. However a few things:
1. Credibility of the source-coming from a dubiously canonical game, even in the Legends continuity? Games have had ridiculous stuff before. Which while not a reason to dismiss it outright, it really doesnt hold much weight when it stands alone.
2. As I said, I am unaware of the details. However, it could also be that both Yoda and Mace knew force drain resistance, but the way they learned was through the light side which takes a lot of time and effort. Time which they probably didnt have to teach Anakin, and they would be involved in other stuff anyways. If another way existed by which Anakin could be taught drain resistance by a different, quicker way, they would spring for it. Is it explicitly stated that they didnt know how to counter drain? Because otherwise we cant really make any assumptions.
3. The Jedi would have full knowledge of how to counter drain(if they didnt have so already) after this. Which kind of renders the vs part of your argument moot.
Last edited by LordOfTheLight on Jan 16th, 2018 at 05:38 AM
Just so you know: The ancient Sith were aware that you can drain of life or Force energy sentient beings and places.
Also Ulic knows a way to resist the Reaper's effects. His lines to Anakin imply that you have to make use of Life-Drain power in order to stop the Dark Reaper. That's why Ulic said it is only for a short time: Because you use Life-Drain and as the Reaper gains more power, it also expands
its range.
And the story is non-canon.
__________________ RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."
Last edited by Freedon Nadd on Jan 16th, 2018 at 07:57 AM
Jan 15th, 2018 07:35 PM
