and yet without the fools, who then will bring us much merriment and haughty ale whilst we pine away for a past no longer within our grasps. a time when men where men and the women were curvalicious and full of heat and passion and most willing for a quid or a penny for a rye?
Re: Re: Gandalf is far more powerfull them witch king
Sorry about my english, but im not american to speak so well, but I try.
Ok, ok if witch king is so powerfull why JRRT would say that the evil powers are weaker than the good ones? He actualy said that and I know you know it.
Its true that he is powerfull, but dont get even close to Gandalf or Sauron or any other Maiar. They are superior in power, the Maiars, and you know that. The reason they dont use their powers (the god Maiars) its because they are not alowed to, unless its something very strong like a Balrog for exemple, not one nazgūl alone. They can use little powers like that light gandalf used.
Even using little powers Gandalf is stronger than the nine Nazgūl, remeber in book one when Gandalf fighted with all then and said they left the fight hurted. All then could not hurt gandalf, so what witch king can do alone?
About the ring and Gandalf becoming like Sauron: you forgot about the council, when Gandalf said that only Powerfull beins could control the ring, they would become evil but would become very powerfull and would control thenselfs as well.
Galadriel said thet she would become powerfull as well, not like gandalf if he used it (because he is a Maiar), but strong enought to control middle earth.
Why tey would say that if it isnt true?
You dont said a thing about this part: "Tolkien wrote in his book ( you just have to read it) that no power on earth could hurt him, and that leads to Gandalf x witch king, the "powerfull" witch king could never, ever have hurted him like he did on the movie!"
Say something about it! That is enouth to end this fight!
Well, you likewise don't say a thing about Gandalf not even being able to take on the wolves in The Hobbit. In Mirkwood, Gandalf even considers sacrificing his own life to create an effect powerful enough to save the others. You are ascribing power to Gandalf that he does not have.
Maia are not Gods; Tolkien would be displeased to hear them called so. In any case, Gandalf is using the power he has. I am unsure what Nazgul-beating incident you are referring to.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
In the book Gandalf does not fight the Witch King, since he would be destined to die - remember no man could possibly kill him, which is why Eowen could and did.
I am just wondering, since Gandalf is not strictly speaking a man but a mythrandir - would that make any difference - does anyone know?
__________________ The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together.
It depends how yopu interpret Glorfindel's words, but I have always been firmly of the opinion that as Tolkien specifies VERY clearly that it is Merry's blow that was the critiical one in that fight- as I say, he was carrying the weapon that could do the harm- that the Prophecy did indeed refer to race, not gender.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
Gandalf did not fight all nine, Gandalf fought four or five, he says so himself. He also states that nobody could defeat or survive against the nine united.
You forget also that the Witch-King is Sauron's greatest warrior and most feared one who Gandalf even feared. Gandalf couldn't kill the Witch-King no matter how hard he tried. No man can kill the Witch-King
Precisely correct - he did not defeat them but he only 'pushed them away' - at the end not a single one dies there.
Ushgarak - copletely agree with you - it must have been a race difference rather than sex. Yet why does Eowen become the hero in the movie - misunderstanding of the story or deliberate action?
__________________ The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together.
Gandalf HAVE fighted with all the Nazgūl! Put the part here where he said he didnt! And he didnt fighted with the witch king because he flew away when Rohan came, he was standing there and dind move, he said that the witch king couldnt pass (like with the Balrog), and your powerfull witch king dindt pass, did he? I believe he run away because he sense Gandalfs fury groing like in the wheter top. Plus he was a Maiar and is now an Istari, not a MAN! How could a man live like that! (no MAN can kill him).
About the wolves: he was, in the first place, gray, and he is white now, remember what ive said 3 times now, that NO POWER ON EARTH could kill him now that he is white, its in the book, read it! And he dindt died, he is not alowed to use powers so its obviously that he would die if he had used a powerfull power, so how would he be able to defeat the Balrog and Saruman, in those cases he had and could use powers! With the witch king, i belive, he was able too (like in the wheater top) but the Nazgūl run away or what else you believe!
Gandalf ALMOST wasnt able to deal with a lot of wolves but the Nazgūl wasnt able to deal with a normal person!
First off the Witch-King left Gandalf because Rohan have came at last and a couple of thousand Rohirrim seems more important then one wizard. And Gandalf can use his powers! That's why he's on Middle-Earth to begin with. Gandalf said himself that he never fought all nine RingWraiths but they chased him and yes Gandalf can be killed like anyone else.
Of course he can be killed by the witch king, but he is much more powerfull then him, thats for sure.
I dont remember he saying that he never have fighted with all the nazgūl, refresh my memory please, in what part of the book is that?
No POWER on earth makes efect on him, thats what the book said, so the witch king, to win, would have to face him with just his weapons and Gandalf have a lot of power, plus Gandalf is compared in power with Sauron not with the witch king.
To finish, gandalf can be killed but not by a nazgūl alone, ok? Its just what I am trying to say. That part of the movie in EE of ROTK its a part that I will never accept, its just a realy big lie because the powers of the witch king cant hurt him like it was showed to us. I hate the guy who wrote that, for me the movie is based on the book but dont tell us the real story.
And there is another mistake in the movie (I think you are going to like that), the witch king died to easily, in the book it was much more harder than it was in the movie.
Oh one more thing, I find a part in the book that says everything, here it is:
"Do I not say truly, Gandalf," said Aragorn at last, "that you could go whithersoever you wished quicker than I? And this I also say: you are our captain and our banner. The Dark Lord has Nine. But we have One, mightier than they: the White Rider. He has passed through the fire and the abyss, and they shall fear him. We will go where he leads."
The Two Towers: "The White Rider," p. 104
Last edited by Gandalfjon on Sep 21st, 2005 at 09:28 PM
That's just ass-backwards, Gandalfjon. Where does it say that he DID fight all the Nazgul? That's up to you to show, that for us to show he did not- that's just common sense.
You simply cannot state for definite that Gandalf could not be beaten by the Witch-King. Sorry, but you cannot. White, Maia, or whatever, the Witch-King is a mighty foe and it is not unreasonable to say they were matched- which is certainly how Tolkien promotes it.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
I found proof that Gandalf himself said he couldn't defeat the Witch-King!
The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King
Chapter IV: The Siege of Gondor Pg. 800-801 (One volume edition)
'Is Faramir come?' he asked.
'No,' said Gandalf. 'But he still lived when I left him. Yet he is resolved to stay with the reargurad, lest the retreat over the Pelennor become a rout. He may, perhaps, hold his men together long enough, but I doubt it. He is pitted against a foe too great. For one has come that I feared.'
'Not - the Dark Lord?' cried Pippin, forgetting his place in his terror.
Denethor laughed bitterly. 'Nay, not yet, Master Peregrin! He will not come save only to triumph over me when all is won. He uses others as his weapons. So do all great lords, if they are wise, Master Halfling. Or why should I sit here in my tower and think, and watch, and wair, spending even my sons? For I can still wield a brand.'
He stood up and cast opened his long black cloak, and behold! he was clad in mail beneath, and grit with a long sword, great-hilted in a sheath of black and silver. 'Thus have I walked, and thus now for many years have I slept,' he said, 'lest we age the body should grow soft and timid.'
'Yet now under the Lord of Barad-dur the most fell of all his captains is already master of your outer walls' said Gandalf. 'King of Angmar long ago, Sorcerer, Ringwraith, Lord of the Nazgul, a spear of terror in the hand of Sauron, shadow of despair.'
'Then, Mithrandir, you had a foe to match you,' Said Denethor. 'For myself, I have long known who is chief captain of the hosts of the Dark Tower. Is this all that you have returned to say? Or cab it be that you have withdrawn because you are overmatched?'
Pippin trembled, fearing that Gandalf would be stung to sudden wrath, but his fear was needless. 'It might be so,' Gandalf answered softly. 'But our trial of strength is not yet come. And if words spoken of old be true blah, blah, blah...
(How do you put a ^ over words like you should for Nazgul?)
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