Well if you prefer that I do bring up counter points then all right.
About as "pointless" as any versus debates in general.
And what makes the Jem Hadar so special?
I can’t see how that works. Even within just the context of this sentence, all that he is doing is just giving a comparison of firepower between a deathstar and a thousand ISDs. Nothing to implicate about the actual fleet size itself.
Hardly surprising, especially considering that said ships were particularly powerful for its time. Hell a few ships swinging the balance of powers is something that happens often in SW. Look at the Death Star. That ONE ship(battle station is more appropriate term) was more than enough to freak out the Rebellion considering the massive threat it posed to them.
Outnumbered if you are only counting the lowest possible canon of 25,000. And also if you are discounting most other ships that the GE possesses.
Clone Troopers are also bred for war.
That’s fine and all. But what feats have they demonstrated on the battlefield? And what would all this mean exactly in the face of an enemy possessing superior firepower?
Definitely not a no limits fallacy as you are implying. It has limits and those limits can certainly be overcome by multi gigaton level firepower.
As per the SW:ICS(Episode 2) an acclamator Troop Transport is capable of 3500G. As per the Star Trek Technical Manual 1000G.
And just about how standardized is the transwarp drive that it would be sufficiently distributed throughout the fleet to make it sufficient enough to engage with Star Wars?
Meh. I’m good. Feel free to bring the direct quotes here though. You are after all, the one asserting the evidence so naturally the burden of proof lies on you.
In space? Useless really since by the time you even fire your weapons you are going to give away your position.
They don’t really do well when in the face of firepower magnitudes greater than their own. Or for that matter physical projectiles.
Hardly representative of the norm. There is an instance in A New Hope where you see chunks of ferrocrete being blasted out of the walls by Han Solos Blaster.
Its got a lot of material to draw on sure. But that doesn’t mean that the volume establishes as to who is superior. I.e. There is a crapload of Star Trek material out there but this certainly doesn’t put them above the level of the Culture-verse. Or the Hyperion verse for that matter.
Which works against shielded objects?
When its titled "Star Wars vs. Star Trek in Five Minutes" of course it won't include everything the ST galaxy has. It doesn't have everything that SW has either.
Darkstar, the author of that particular website has shown quite a significant bias towards Star Trek. Especially in his debates with Mike Wong on Stardestroyer.net. Dismissing someone on the sole ground of bias will not fly either. If you really want to refute a person, then how about looking at the actual arguments?
So the Borg Cube is bigger...cool? Bigger =/= more powerful.
No, proton torpedoes are not "rarely used", where did you get this info from?
Ok...how does it being a scientific fact make it more powerful?
Ok...cool. Doesn't mean that it doesn't have a limit as to how much it can absorb.
So now we're allowed to share tech?
True, species 8472 is a significant threat.
nothing to respond to here, since it is a pointless, bashing and idiotic statement that does not offer any rebuttal or proof whatsoever.
Actually respond to my last post please.
__________________ Introduce a little government. Upset the established gangs, and everything becomes order...
Democracy is the very definition of awesome.
This same super-weapon was destroyed by one ship via a single shot.
To further the tech Vs tech debate-comparison, SW had to build a moon-sized ship to destroy a planet. ST can destroy an entire solar system with one trilithium torpedo.
__________________ Introduce a little government. Upset the established gangs, and everything becomes order...
Democracy is the very definition of awesome.
By exploiting a weakness that took a crapload of espionage to filter out that cost oh so many spies IIRC. A design flaw also remedied in the design plan of the second death star.
It does destroy the planet, but it completely vapes the planet with direct energy whilest also overcoming the planetary shields at the same time.
Which works exclusively for the sun by screwing over the reactions that take place inside it. A formidable weapon no doubt but i seriously doubt that it could be applied to much else.
and SW has it too in the form of the Sun Crusher...
__________________ Introduce a little government. Upset the established gangs, and everything becomes order...
Democracy is the very definition of awesome.
__________________ Introduce a little government. Upset the established gangs, and everything becomes order...
Democracy is the very definition of awesome.
Are you two actually this dense? It's not a difficult point to get. You used a site to claim that Star Wars beats Star Trek despite the fact
that it only takes into account the federation and not the countless other species of far greater power and technology than the federation. And you do this in a thread which is supposed to be about the whole of SW vs the whole of ST.
Already described them...Clearly not paying attention...Again.
The you're an idiot. His quote is something like "The entire empire fleet couldn't destroy a planet...It would take 1000 Star Destroyers..." Clearly showing the empire DON'T HAVE 1000 star destroyers.
Well they were around 100 year old ships at the time and comparable to the imperial II destroyers were actually really weak. Which in turn, compared with a borg cube are also really weak.
So what's the highest possible canon? Is it hundreds of billions or stardestroyers? No. Hence they're outnumbered by a single species...One of many in the ST universe.
Can clone troopers be engineered in 3 days to full fighting ability? No
Do clone troopers have biological cloaking devices in their DNA? No
Can clone troopers fight around the clock with no need for rest, sleep, food or water? No
Are clone troopers significantly more powerful than humans? No
Your point would be valid if Clone Troopers of Storm Troopers had superior firepower...They don't. And if you can't see what benefit a personal biological cloaking device has then you're clearly scraping the barrell for excuses to not admit defeat.
I'm well aware of the "Base Delta Zero". It's a pity it takes fleets of Star Destoyers days to accomplish it.
On the other hand. 9 small species 8472 bioships can do this
In a matter of seconds.
And there's an entire universe full of them.
So the ST manual is a single figure for all ships? That'd be no. If you want canon use your eyes. It clearly obvious that ST ships are vastly more manueverable and have a far longer range.
This you trying to make it Star Fleet only again?...Fail
The burden of proof actually lies on you. You're the one who made the following claim
So far you've utterly failed to back that claim up.
Do you have any clue what phased weapons are? They phase out of normal space/time and so bypass any kind of shielding or armour. Does SW have anything to counter this at all?
Actually they do. Clearly many species have had weapons that have killed Borg drones and ships. Power magnitude has nothing to do with it though. It's frequency. Which is what the Borg adapt to.
How many SW ships use physical projectiles? And before you say proton torpedos, the Borg easily adapted to photon torpedos and would do so to proton torpedos just as easily. The only time "physical projectiles" were effective is when Picard used an old tommy gun on the holodeck with the safety protocols switched off. Hardly applicable is it?
And is his one shot representative of the norm? No. It would be good if you could manage not to contradict yourself.
Well given that your knowledge of the ST universe is quite clearly as close to zero as possible then you're not really in the best position to judge are you?
The Borg's do. As does the Breen and several other species.
Bit difficult to do that given that you haven't put forward any arguments.
I'll respond to SOME of these that aren't about something that can't be defined just by looking at this close, although they weren't directed at me...
Wrong. Stardestroyer.net does delve into other species, ESPECIALLY the Borg, and talks about how the Borg CANNOT simply assimilate SW tech.
wtf? If this army commander says "it would take an army to defeat them" does that mean that they don't have an army? No! It was stated that the Empire has 25,000 star destroyers, and "1000" may very well be a figure of speech.
1. Numbers do not win battles.
2. It is not clear what "vessels" means for the Borg.
3. Most ST species don't have those numbers.
4. CIS has a quadrillion battle droids.
This is one species that you are talking about. What happened to all of the others? Sure they're powerful, but not powerful enough to single handedly solo Star Wars, so you aren't exactly proving a point here.
How many species actually have biological cloaking devices?
And the Death Star can do it. So can the Galaxy Gun. And the Sun Crusher can destroy an entire Solar System. Even better, Centerpoint station can destroy and even MOVE planets/stars from lightyears away. What stops SW from simply destroying all of ST's capital planets in a matter of days with Centerpoint?
"an entire universe?"
more coming later...
__________________ Introduce a little government. Upset the established gangs, and everything becomes order...
Democracy is the very definition of awesome.
As the title implies, it's a quick read and shows just how superior SW ships are.
First, prove that phased weapons can go through ANY shielding/armor and that it cannot be scrambled/messed up by electronics and stuff like that. Also, how often does ST actually use this?
And please explain just how resistant the Borg are to energy weapons; are they completely immune?
An Aclamator troop TRANSPORT has a shield heat dissipation of 70 trillion GW.
The Enterprise D's main phasers have the energy output of 3.6 GW.
How exactly will the Enterprise harm even a mere TROOP TRANSPORT?
Aclamator reactor power = 200 trillion GW
Enterprise D reactor power = 4 billion GW
In Star Wars, galactic travel takes a matter of hours.
It took the Voyager 7 years to cross one quadrant of the galaxy.
Not to mention that Star Wars has the industrial power of millions of worlds to draw upon.
__________________ Introduce a little government. Upset the established gangs, and everything becomes order...
Democracy is the very definition of awesome.
Last edited by Hewhoknowsall on Nov 11th, 2009 at 07:08 PM
__________________ Introduce a little government. Upset the established gangs, and everything becomes order...
Democracy is the very definition of awesome.
Do you just read the 1st sentence and then stop? Cause if you read the rest you'd see I clearly explained the differences.
Yeah. Onscreen evidence does that. The borg ships can self repair in extremely short periods of time. They have adaptive shielding and, in some cases, ablative armour. They are vastly more powerful than Star Destroyers.
A single borg cube can eliminate all life from a planet in very little time. Literally scooping entire cities off the face of the planet. It can remain fully operational even if 78% of it were totally destroyed. It can then regenerate (as i previously mentioned)
From, and get how radical a move this is, actually watching the films.
You really aren't the sharpest tool in the box are you. I was explaining what it was seeing as you quite clearly didn't have the foggiest.
The most sensible thing you've said yet. A species who's biology is resistant to almost all forms of biological or chemical weaponry. A biological based technology that when they went to war with the Borg were able to destroy 8 Borg planets in a single battle.
__________________ Introduce a little government. Upset the established gangs, and everything becomes order...
Democracy is the very definition of awesome.
Compared to a single ship that ST has...The enterprise-D.
Not exactly a valid argument is it?
Based on what? Becaus the guy doesn't want the Borg to be able to do it. They've assimilated every technology bar a single species. Species 8472...An organic based technology. Nothing SW has is invulnerable to the Borg assimilation process.
They're called Chroniton torpedoes. You cant "mess something up" that doesn't exist in the same time as you.
The Borg will take damage to vessels and within 2 or 3 shots from any energy or explosive weapon, they will have completely adapted so that those weapons no longer have any effect at all.
I love it when people quote other people from another thread that i've already disproven. It's great.
Besides, how many times are you going to keep using the enterprise-D as somehow being the pinnacle of what the ST universe has to offer. It's a ****ing science vessel. Not a battle ship.
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Nov 11th, 2009 12:09 AM
