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Royce (Predators)
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Robtard
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I got one thing to say to Royce:


Don't know man, it can be argued that Royce did better with the cards he was dealt.

-Royce had 3 super-predators(plus the dogs) stalking him. Dutch had 1 regular.

-Royce's hunter seemed to have no problem killing lesser/unarmed foes. Dutch's had the honor code.

-Royce was on an alien world. Dutch was in Guatemala.

-Both had about equal sized teams. Dutch's team were all elite forces and trained to work with each other. Royce was stuck with a mixed group, some elites, some not. All strangers.


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Last edited by Robtard on Oct 11th, 2010 at 06:04 PM

Old Post Oct 11th, 2010 06:02 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
-Royce was on an alien world. Dutch was in Guatemala.



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Old Post Oct 11th, 2010 06:06 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
Don't know man, it can be argued that Royce did better with the cards he was dealt.

-Royce had 3 super-predators(plus the dogs) stalking him. Dutch had 1 regular.

-Royce's hunter seemed to have no problem killing lesser/unarmed foes. Dutch's had the honor code.

-Royce was on an alien world. Dutch was in Guatemala.

-Both had about equal sized teams. Dutch's team were all elite forces and trained to work with each other. Royce was stuck with a mixed group, some elites, some not. All strangers.


Royce was fortunate enough to have the opportunity to gain intel on the Predators. The first encounter where he yells "run", having Isabelle along with her knowledge of them, and what Noland told him. This was key. Plus, when it came to killing time, Royce always had help. Hanzo gave himself up to save them. Then Nikolai blew the second one up. Then Stans shanked the third Predator allowing Royce and the others to escape. Then, right before the third Predator killed Royce, Isabelle shot him.

Dutch? He figured shit out on the fly. And when it came time to fight/kill, he did it all alone.


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Old Post Oct 11th, 2010 06:31 PM
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Snafu the Great
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That and the Classic Predator hunted by its honor code. The Super Predators doesn't. Mr. Black and his buddies took the Predator Honor Code and tossed it out the window.


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Old Post Oct 11th, 2010 07:59 PM
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Robtard
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican


My point was, Dutch likely had experience fighting in his environment already(or similar), being an elite back-ops guy.

Royce had to deal with an alien environment, couldn't even use the sun for positioning/time tracking.


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Last edited by Robtard on Oct 11th, 2010 at 08:06 PM

Old Post Oct 11th, 2010 08:00 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Royce was fortunate enough to have the opportunity to gain intel on the Predators. The first encounter where he yells "run", having Isabelle along with her knowledge of them, and what Noland told him. This was key. Plus, when it came to killing time, Royce always had help. Hanzo gave himself up to save them. Then Nikolai blew the second one up. Then Stans shanked the third Predator allowing Royce and the others to escape. Then, right before the third Predator killed Royce, Isabelle shot him.

Dutch? He figured shit out on the fly. And when it came time to fight/kill, he did it all alone.


While true, he still figured shit out all by himself and appeared to be more competent than Dutch taking in his opponent(s).

The super-Predator Royce killed (with some help) was still considerably above the Predator Dutch killed. Regular Predator also gave up its weapons to fight Dutch, the super-Predator had no such leniency when fighting Royce.


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Old Post Oct 11th, 2010 08:04 PM
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Royce still had help though, while Dutch never had help.


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Old Post Oct 11th, 2010 10:35 PM
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Robtard
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Royce still had help though, while Dutch never had help.


Yes, we've covered that; you're not looking at the bigger picture. Dutch would have been dead if the Predator had been like the super-Predator, it had him and could have killed him. But it wanted honor and decided to drop its weapons/gear and face Dutch H2H.

In the end, Royce fought and defeated a tougher opponent (yes, with a bit of help).


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Old Post Oct 11th, 2010 10:42 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
Yes, we've covered that; you're not looking at the bigger picture. Dutch would have been dead if the Predator had been like the super-Predator, it had him and could have killed him. But it wanted honor and decided to drop its weapons/gear and face Dutch H2H.

In the end, Royce fought and defeated a tougher opponent (yes, with a bit of help).


Dutch faced his Predator alone. He killed it alone, with no help.

Royce was finished. The Predator was going to decap him, then Isabelle shot it. Besides, it was already wounded by Stans.

Dutch: One on one. Royce: Two on one. Dutch did better. And no, the deadfall booby trap would have ended the Super Predator just fine.


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Old Post Oct 11th, 2010 10:48 PM
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Tzeentch
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Dutch faced his Predator alone. He killed it alone, with no help.

Royce was finished. The Predator was going to decap him, then Isabelle shot it. Besides, it was already wounded by Stans.

Dutch: One on one. Royce: Two on one. Dutch did better. And no, the deadfall booby trap would have ended the Super Predator just fine.


Dutch didn't do better because the only reason he won was because the Predator handicapped itself. Your argument's the equivalent of saying that beating present day alzheimers Muhammed Ali in a one on one boxing match is more impressive than two men beating Muhammed Ali in his prime in a boxing match.


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"The Daemon lied with every breath. It could not help itself but to deceive and dismay, to riddle and ruin. The more we conversed, the closer I drew to one singularly ineluctable fact: I would gain no wisdom here."

Old Post Oct 12th, 2010 02:51 AM
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Snafu the Great
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Dutch didn't actually kill the Jungle Hunter. He mortally wounded it by dropping a giant log on him. Pred wanted to die with his honor intact and thus triggered the self-destruct on his wrist. So technically, Pred killed himself.


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Old Post Oct 12th, 2010 04:00 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Snafu the Great
Dutch didn't actually kill the Jungle Hunter. He mortally wounded it by dropping a giant log on him. Pred wanted to die with his honor intact and thus triggered the self-destruct on his wrist. So technically, Pred killed himself.


No. Dutch had a rock raised over his head and was going to crush the Predator's head, but showed mercy when he saw it crippled and coughing up blood. He could have easily killed it. Royce? He was about to die when Isabelle intervened and shot the Predator. Had she not shot it, Royce was dead meat.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Dutch didn't do better because the only reason he won was because the Predator handicapped itself. Your argument's the equivalent of saying that beating present day alzheimers Muhammed Ali in a one on one boxing match is more impressive than two men beating Muhammed Ali in his prime in a boxing match.
Let's keep this simple......If Isabelle hadn't shot the Predator, would Royce have won?

No. I rest my case.


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Old Post Oct 12th, 2010 04:35 AM
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Tzeentch
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Let's keep this simple......If Isabelle hadn't shot the Predator, would Royce have won?

No. I rest my case.


If the Predator fighting Dutch hadn't gone easy on him and not killed him the multiple times it had the chance to out of honor, would Dutch have won?

I rest my case. no expression


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"The Daemon lied with every breath. It could not help itself but to deceive and dismay, to riddle and ruin. The more we conversed, the closer I drew to one singularly ineluctable fact: I would gain no wisdom here."

Old Post Oct 12th, 2010 04:44 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
If the Predator fighting Dutch hadn't gone easy on him and not killed him the multiple times it had the chance to out of honor, would Dutch have won?

I rest my case. no expression


OK, how many opportunities did the SuperPred have to kill Royce? I mean dead to rights, Royce was gonna die?


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Last edited by Rogue Jedi on Oct 12th, 2010 at 04:55 AM

Old Post Oct 12th, 2010 04:47 AM
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What difference does it make? Neither of the characters would have survived even ten minutes with their respective predators if the creatures had decided to not bullshit around and just kill them. If either of the characters were so badass that they could have killed the Predator without nearly being killed themselves, or if the Predators had just outright killed them, the movies would never have had any any suspense.


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"The Daemon lied with every breath. It could not help itself but to deceive and dismay, to riddle and ruin. The more we conversed, the closer I drew to one singularly ineluctable fact: I would gain no wisdom here."

Old Post Oct 12th, 2010 05:25 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
What difference does it make? Neither of the characters would have survived even ten minutes with their respective predators if the creatures had decided to not bullshit around and just kill them. If either of the characters were so badass that they could have killed the Predator without nearly being killed themselves, or if the Predators had just outright killed them, the movies would never have had any any suspense.
Just answer the question. I remember twice.

First time was when they exit the ship after Nikolai blew up the first Pred. Second was when Isabelle shot the Super Pred.


Also, you JUST said it:

What difference does it make? Neither of the characters would have survived even ten minutes with their respective predators if the creatures had decided to not bullshit around and just kill them.

Yes, the Preds coulda done that. Wanna know the difference between Dutch and Royce? Dutch faced down his Predator alone and killed it, with absolutely zero help. Royce? He had help from Isabelle. Dutch, 1 on 1. Royce? 2 on 1.

Hell, if Stans hadn't shanked the Super Pred, Royce was gonna die. And if Hanzo hadn't decided to face the second Pred alone, Royce would have been killed. Royce had all the help in the world while Dutch had literally no help.

See?


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Old Post Oct 12th, 2010 05:35 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
[B]Wanna know the difference between Dutch and Royce? Dutch faced down his Predator alone and killed it, with absolutely zero help. Royce? He had help from Isabelle. Dutch, 1 on 1. Royce? 2 on 1.


Dutch's Predator also wasn't trying to kill him, like Royce's was. You have no proof that Dutch could have lasted longer than 20 seconds against his Predator if it had said screw the code and gone for the kill like Royce's had.

Hell if you want to sit there and count, the Predator could have simply bown his head off when it was down to just him and the girl and the white guy, after Billy died; but it targeted the white guy instead. If Billy hadn't of sacrificed himself it would have caught up sooner and he'd of been dead then too. There's tons of times that Dutch could of died, would of died, if he'd been alone, but he didn't because everyone else died first out of chance. And he would have been dead when it was down to him and the Predator 1 on 1 if the Predator didn't decide to pause the action and do some honor shit for whatever reason. He had Dutch up against a tree dead to rights but didn't kill him, not because he was unable too.


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"The Daemon lied with every breath. It could not help itself but to deceive and dismay, to riddle and ruin. The more we conversed, the closer I drew to one singularly ineluctable fact: I would gain no wisdom here."

Last edited by Tzeentch on Oct 12th, 2010 at 05:42 AM

Old Post Oct 12th, 2010 05:38 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Dutch's Predator also wasn't trying to kill him, like Royce's was. You have no proof that Dutch could have lasted longer than 20 seconds against his Predator if it had said screw the code and gone for the kill like Royce's had.

Hell if you want to sit there and count, the Predator could have simply bown his head off when it was down to just him and the girl and the white guy, after Billy died; but it targeted the white guy instead. If Billy hadn't of sacrificed himself it would have caught up sooner and he'd of been dead then too. There's tons of times that Dutch could of died, would of died, if he'd been alone, but he didn't because everyone else died first out of chance. And he would have been dead when it was down to him and the Predator 1 on 1 if the Predator didn't decide to pause the action and do some honor shit for whatever reason. He had Dutch up against a tree dead to rights but didn't kill him, not because he was unable too.

No one, not even Rambo or Riddick, would last 20 seconds if the Predators decided to kill without honor.

My point is that when it came time to get up close and personal, Royce had help. Dutch had none.

When the Super Pred had Royce dead to rights, both times, Royce was saved by someone from his team. When Dutch's Predator had him dead to rights, Dutch lived because the Predator decided to let him live.



Think of the two instances when Dutch and Royce were helpless to prevent their respective Predators from driving their blades home. Royce relied on a distraction from Isabelle to drive home the killing blow. Dutch relied on himself.


Why aren't you getting it?


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Old Post Oct 12th, 2010 06:20 AM
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What I don't understand is why that somehow counts as a + for Dutch and a - for Royce. How is surviving against someone who isn't trying to kill you more impressive than two people beating someone who is going through every length to kill them? That's like saying me beating a champion boxer who is tied up to a chair, in a 1 on 1 fight, is more impressive than two people beating Bruce Lee in a fight.


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Last edited by Tzeentch on Oct 12th, 2010 at 06:42 AM

Old Post Oct 12th, 2010 06:38 AM
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Ok......You remember what happened to Dutch from:

Point A: Poncho being killed

to

Point B: The Predator blowing itself up.


Right? Dutch evaded the Predator, discovered it's thermal vision, hid in the jungle, fashioned a bow and explosive arrows, made a booby trap, stalked the Predator, crippled it's cloaking device, injured it with his arrows, ran again from it, tried tricking it into the booby trap, failed, improvised, crushed it with the deadfall.

He did all this alone, with no backup.



Ask yourself this.....What's more impressive? One guy KOing Tyson in his prime, or two guys KOing Tyson in his prime?


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Old Post Oct 12th, 2010 06:49 AM
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