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Royce (Predators)
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Robtard
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Dutch faced his Predator alone. He killed it alone, with no help.

Royce was finished. The Predator was going to decap him, then Isabelle shot it. Besides, it was already wounded by Stans.

Dutch: One on one. Royce: Two on one. Dutch did better. And no, the deadfall booby trap would have ended the Super Predator just fine.


Dutch was finished too, the Predator didn't end him when it could have in lieu of letting him live, dropping it's weapons/gear and fighting him H2H. In short, the Predator helped Dutch by gimping itself due to its honor-code, something that last super-Predator didn't have.

Dutch would have never trapped the super-Predator in the dead-fall, as it would have killed him instead of dropping its gear in the previous scene. See. One comes before the other.

And as stated, the super-Predator is a far tougher opponent overall.


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Last edited by Robtard on Oct 12th, 2010 at 03:53 PM

Old Post Oct 12th, 2010 03:51 PM
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They were both done, dude. WTF is wrong with you? All that matters is Royce had help, had people saving his skinny ass left and right. All Dutch had was Dutch.

Dutch did better.


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Old Post Oct 12th, 2010 08:31 PM
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Robtard
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
They were both done, dude. WTF is wrong with you? All that matters is Royce had help, had people saving his skinny ass left and right. All Dutch had was Dutch.

Dutch did better.


Dutch had an easier opponent that let him live when it could have easily killed him and to top it off, that same opponent then willfully dropped all its weapons gear in order to give Dutch a better fighting chance. So WTF is wrong with you? <--- don't answer that, I already know; it's rhetorical.

Dutch did better against a weaker and more lenient opponent(remember what the super-Predator did the the regualr Predator, yeah?). Though the "better" isn't all that much, as Royce killed opponent in a face to face fight, Dutch laid a clever trap.


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Last edited by Robtard on Oct 12th, 2010 at 09:09 PM

Old Post Oct 12th, 2010 09:07 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
Dutch had an easier opponent that let him live when it could have easily killed him and to top it off, that same opponent then willfully dropped all its weapons gear in order to give Dutch a better fighting chance. So WTF is wrong with you? <--- don't answer that, I already know; it's rhetorical.

Dutch did better against a weaker and more lenient opponent(remember what the super-Predator did the the regualr Predator, yeah?). Though the "better" isn't all that much, as Royce killed opponent in a face to face fight, Dutch laid a clever trap.


Mhm, Dutch's Predator let him live. Royce was saved twice by Stans and Isabelle. Those facts kinda nullify each other. If Dutch's Predator had decided to kill him when he had him by the neck, it could have. This is old news. Here's new news: Royce's Predator would have killed him because he knew he was facing three humans, not one. If Dillon and Mac were still in the mix when the Predator had Dutch against the tree, it would have killed Dutch quickly, then dealt with Dillon and Mac.

The Predator has a tendency to face someone with honor one on one (Dutch vs. Predator, Hanzo vs. Predator, Billy vs. Predator.) Both Predators assumed they had their prey (Dutch and Royce) one on one. The difference between Dutch and Royce is that Dutch, when one on one with the Predator, had only himself. Royce? He relied on someone else saving him (Isabelle.) If Isabelle hadn't come to, Royce would have been skewered.

Also, Dutch did not have the luxury of having extensive intel on his opponent, this is more valuable than you think. Read on:

The Predators cloaking device: Royce was told of this by Isabelle. Dutch found out on his own.

The Predators thermal imaging: Royce was told this by Noland. Dutch found out on his own.

The Predators superior strength: Royce was told this by Noland (I think). Dutch found out on his own.



Bottom line: Have them switch places and Royce dies horribly, while Dutch beats the SuperPred easily.


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Old Post Oct 12th, 2010 09:22 PM
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Robtard
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Stan saved Royce from the wrist-fighter Predator, not the main one(the one we're comparing against) iirc. If you want to bring them in sure, Royce was saved; his crappier team was also facing three opponents, not one like Dutch's.

You're assuming the Predator would have done this or that, really depends if Dillion or Mac still had weapons or not and what fighting condition they were in. It could have just as easily decided to curb-stomp the three of them barehanded, if they were out of ammo themselves, as it doesn't shoot unarmed opponents.

Super-Predators varied, the main one didn't have this honor code, as it had no problem skewering a downed and dying man. The one the Russian blew the **** up was about to slice apart Topher, who by all accounts appeared defenseless/useless.While his was Dutch's opponent.

What was the intel she gave him exactly? She didn't tell him all that much, dude. He deduced a good amount of it himself after setting up the trap and using the African as bait, ie the fact that there were three opponents hunting them, they used both projectile and energy weapons, they were far larger and stronger, was all him after that initial setup.

Dutch had a little bit of help too from the Guatemalan woman, she hinted that in was invisible. Prettu sure Dutch found about the cloaking ability after he saw it and he had the luxury of having his opponents cloaking

Bottom line, wtf? Dutch wouldn't have sacrificed a member of his team to gather intel, that would have seriously gimped him.


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Last edited by Robtard on Oct 12th, 2010 at 10:29 PM

Old Post Oct 12th, 2010 10:27 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
Stan saved Royce from the wrist-fighter Predator, not the main one(the one we're comparing against) iirc. If you want to bring them in sure, Royce was saved; his crappier team was also facing three opponents, not one like Dutch's.

You're assuming the Predator would have done this or that, really depends if Dillion or Mac still had weapons or not and what fighting condition they were in. It could have just as easily decided to curb-stomp the three of them barehanded, if they were out of ammo themselves, as it doesn't shoot unarmed opponents.

Super-Predators varied, the main one didn't have this honor code, as it had no problem skewering a downed and dying man. The one the Russian blew the **** up was about to slice apart Topher, who by all accounts appeared defenseless/useless.While his was Dutch's opponent.

What was the intel she gave him exactly? She didn't tell him all that much, dude. He deduced a good amount of it himself after setting up the trap and using the African as bait, ie the fact that there were three opponents hunting them, they used both projectile and energy weapons, they were far larger and stronger, was all him after that initial setup.

Dutch had a little bit of help too from the Guatemalan woman, she hinted that in was invisible. Prettu sure Dutch found about the cloaking ability after he saw it and he had the luxury of having his opponents cloaking


Wait, I'm confused....The first Predator was blown up by Nikolai, the second by Hanzo, the third by Royce.

Now, the one that Stans shanked, was that the SuperPred, or the one that Hanzo killed?


And no, Anna told Dutch myths and legends. Isabelle/Noland gave Royce hard core intel. So in a roundabout way, Dutch helped Royce win wink


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Old Post Oct 12th, 2010 10:30 PM
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Robtard
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Wait, I'm confused....The first Predator was blown up by Nikolai, the second by Hanzo, the third by Royce.

Now, the one that Stans shanked, was that the SuperPred, or the one that Hanzo killed?


And no, Anna told Dutch myths and legends. Isabelle/Noland gave Royce hard core intel. So in a roundabout way, Dutch helped Royce win wink


I thought it was the one Hanzo killed. Could be wrong, might have been the main/last one.

The only thing Dutch deduced himself was the thermal vision due to the mud. Put Royce in the same scene, he comes to the same conclusion, he was far from being a dumb-ass.


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Old Post Oct 12th, 2010 10:46 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
I thought it was the one Hanzo killed. Could be wrong, might have been the main/last one.

The only thing Dutch deduced himself was the thermal vision due to the mud. Put Royce in the same scene, he comes to the same conclusion, he was far from being a dumb-ass.


It was the SuperPred I think.

Right. Dutch figured it out on his own. Royce didn't. Doesn't matter what you think Royce could have done, he didn't do it. Saying that Royce could have repeated Dutch's feat is speculation.

Put Royce in that same scene and we don't know what he'd do.


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Old Post Oct 12th, 2010 10:49 PM
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Considering what Royce was shown to be capable of and how battle-intelligent he was, it's not beyond reason. Dude clearly knew his shit.

Arnold was spent and resorted to hiding; when the Predator looked straight at him and didn't notice him, he figured out the thermal. Not some stroke of sheer genius, that.

Don't get me wrong, at no time here am I implying Dutch is shit, just that Royce had a harder challenge and tougher opponents.


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Last edited by Robtard on Oct 12th, 2010 at 11:10 PM

Old Post Oct 12th, 2010 11:06 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
Considering what Royce was shown to be capable of and how battle-intelligent he was, it's not beyond reason. Dude clearly knew his shit.

Arnold was spent and resorted to hiding; when the Predator looked straight at him and didn't notice him, he figured out the thermal. Not some stroke of sheer genius, that.

Don't get me wrong, at no time here am I implying Dutch is shit, just that Royce had a harder challenge and tougher opponents.


Well, the fact that Dutch took the hunt to the Predator speaks volumes for me. Also the fact that he had zero support and had to figure out everything himself.


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Old Post Oct 12th, 2010 11:26 PM
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Did you forget the fact that Royce did the same exact thing when he said they should follow the 'dog' tracks and go after what's hunting them.

He figured out one thing, the Thermal vision.


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Old Post Oct 12th, 2010 11:34 PM
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Dude, I would have done the same thing, following the dog tracks. That's just common sense.


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Old Post Oct 12th, 2010 11:44 PM
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That was in regards to your 'Dutch took the fight to the Predator', chief.

Royce did too, except he didn't have the luxury of knowing what or how many he was fighting when he decided to do this, Dutch did at that point in his film.


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Old Post Oct 12th, 2010 11:47 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Wait, I'm confused....The first Predator was blown up by Nikolai, the second by Hanzo, the third by Royce.

Now, the one that Stans shanked, was that the SuperPred, or the one that Hanzo killed?


All three Predators (save for the Classic Predator) were Super Preds: the Flusher, the Falconer, and the Berzerker aka Mr. Black.
Nikolai took the Flusher Pred with him, Hanzo faced the Falconer Pred in a (sorta) honorable duel, which earns Hanzo respect points, and Royce faced Mr. Black.


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Old Post Oct 12th, 2010 11:52 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
That was in regards to your 'Dutch took the fight to the Predator', chief.

Royce did too, except he didn't have the luxury of knowing what or how many he was fighting when he decided to do this, Dutch did at that point in his film.
Yeah, Royce went to the camp and almost got his team and himself killed. Yeah, he did good though.


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Old Post Oct 12th, 2010 11:55 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Yeah, Royce went to the camp and almost got his team and himself killed. Yeah, he did good though.


Sacrificed one man to learn extremely valuable intel, all in all, it was a great job.


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Old Post Oct 13th, 2010 12:12 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
Sacrificed one man to learn extremely valuable intel, all in all, it was a great job.


Cuz the man was black, right?


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Old Post Oct 13th, 2010 12:13 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Cuz the man was black, right?


If he had his choice of who, I'd guess he would have sacrificed the convict. As far as Royce knew, he was the least trained, most unstable and overall most useless of the group. Topher at least was a medical doctor and had scientific know-how, despite being a weeny little *****.

Though he did question why Topher was there to begin with, shows he was turning gears in his head the whole time.

[SPOILER - highlight to read]: yeah, because he was black.


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Old Post Oct 13th, 2010 12:19 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
If he had his choice of who, I'd guess he would have sacrificed the convict. As far as Royce knew, he was the least trained, most unstable and overall most useless of the group. Topher at least was a medical doctor and had scientific know-how, despite being a weeny little *****.

Though he did question why Topher was there to begin with, shows he was turning gears in his head the whole time.

[SPOILER - highlight to read]: yeah, because he was black.

I cannot, for the life of me, figure out why the Predators selected Edwin and Stans. They were useless as prey.


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Old Post Oct 13th, 2010 12:28 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I cannot, for the life of me, figure out why the Predators selected Edwin and Stans. They were useless as prey.


Glad to see that I wasn't the only one who thought so.


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Old Post Oct 13th, 2010 12:46 AM
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