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Who wins the race: Surfer vs Flash
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Rage.Of.Olympus
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol, think anyone of us with any engineering/maths bent has done the calcs before - the problem stems from the assumption we all make that Flash's speed out of the city = speed back into the city.


Seriously? erm

It's obvious that the writer f*cked up there and I ruined a great feat for Wally but are you actually arguing that he was only referring to Wally running OUT of the city and not into it?

Like, if you're arguing that this is one way the feat could make sense, sure. If you're arguing that this was the intention of the writer, then I call shenanigans because that is one retarded assumption.


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Old Post Feb 24th, 2014 04:38 PM
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DarkSaint85
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Seriously? erm

It's obvious that the writer f*cked up there and I ruined a great feat for Wally but are you actually arguing that he was only referring to Wally running OUT of the city and not into it?

Like, if you're arguing that this is one way the feat could make sense, sure. If you're arguing that this was the intention of the writer, then I call shenanigans because that is one retarded assumption.


I'm arguing it as a way it makes sense. I thought my other posts made it clear - it marries both statements together, and everyone's happy.

Also makes sense, character wise. I THINK Flash (Wally) has gone on panel where he's carrying someone, and even though the Speed Force is protecting them, he still takes a bit of care when carrying them.


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Old Post Feb 24th, 2014 04:40 PM
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Rage.Of.Olympus
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I'm arguing it as a way it makes sense. I thought my other posts made it clear - it marries both statements together, and everyone's happy.

Also makes sense, character wise. I THINK Flash (Wally) has gone on panel where he's carrying someone, and even though the Speed Force is protecting them, he still takes a bit of care when carrying them.


If you want to argue that it makes sense this way, that's fine, but trying to impose it on the scene as legitimate evidence is where I get a problem with it.

By that I mean, saying Wally will smoke Surfer because what the writer REALLY meant, even though the narration said the exact opposite, was that Wally was also running at hundreds of times faster then light when he wasn't carrying people. Inserting such crucial information into a scene is something I find troubling.


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Old Post Feb 24th, 2014 04:44 PM
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DarkSaint85
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It's NOT the intention of the writer, because I think there exists statements from Waid saying he pulled it out of his ass.

BUT on panel narration trumps writer interviews....


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Old Post Feb 24th, 2014 04:45 PM
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God Cloth Seiya
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Flash wins...........with ease


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Old Post Feb 24th, 2014 04:47 PM
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Rage.Of.Olympus
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It's NOT the intention of the writer, because I think there exists statements from Waid saying he pulled it out of his ass.

BUT on panel narration trumps writer interviews....


I'd like to see that.

I just hate the idea of inserting in random shit to make a feat more in line with our sensibilities. What the f*ck is even the point of the discussion then?

Anyways, this thread presents a bit of an issue. Surfer has covered vast intergalactic distances in moments. Wally cannot compete with such sheer scale, due to being relatively earthbound. What makes matters worse is that for a long time, when he broke light, which in itself was a huge deal for much of his career, he started dimension hopping.

That being said, it's clear that in relative combat speed, Flash is on an entirely different level when he needs to be.


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Last edited by Rage.Of.Olympus on Feb 24th, 2014 at 04:57 PM

Old Post Feb 24th, 2014 04:50 PM
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DarkSaint85
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
If you want to argue that it makes sense this way, that's fine, but trying to impose it on the scene as legitimate evidence is where I get a problem with it.

By that I mean, saying Wally will smoke Surfer because what the writer really meant was that Wally was also running at hundreds of times faster then light when he wasn't carrying people. Inserting such crucial information into a scene is something I find troubling.


Well, there are three ways of reading that scene:

1. He ran at hundreds of times the speed of light (using the time/distance/# of people that was explicitly given).
2. He ran under the speed of light (using the sentence that was explicitly given, a hair breadth's SHORT).
3. My way, where both are equally valid.

1 and 2 can't exist together. Carver and others will cling to the last narration box, Rao and others will cling to the first few. 35 pages later, this thread is closed.

Mine shortcuts all of them, and says both are right. Was the writer intending to do that? Hell no. But at least mine doesn't choose a side.

Of course, a 4th one is to throw it all out and say it is inadmissible, but Mindship was asking for a quantifiable feat, and this fitted the bill (I thought, anyway).


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Old Post Feb 24th, 2014 04:51 PM
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Rage.Of.Olympus
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well, there are three ways of reading that scene:

1. He ran at hundreds of times the speed of light (using the time/distance/# of people that was explicitly given).
2. He ran under the speed of light (using the sentence that was explicitly given, a hair breadth's SHORT).
3. My way, where both are equally valid.

1 and 2 can't exist together. Carver and others will cling to the last narration box, Rao and others will cling to the first few. 35 pages later, this thread is closed.

Mine shortcuts all of them, and says both are right. Was the writer intending to do that? Hell no. But at least mine doesn't choose a side.

Of course, a 4th one is to throw it all out and say it is inadmissible, but Mindship was asking for a quantifiable feat, and this fitted the bill (I thought, anyway).


Why do there have to be different ways of reading the scene at all?

This isn't some ambiguous dialogue or fight where the writer wants to keep you guessing for fun. It straight out said that he saved the people by carrying them at right under the speed of light.

Anything that involves extrapolating further then that is waste of time as far as I'm concerned. And throwing out the feat for inadmissible is just as bad.


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Old Post Feb 24th, 2014 04:54 PM
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DarkSaint85
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'd like to see that.

I just hate the idea of inserting in random shit to make a feat more in line with our sensibilities. What the f*ck is even the point of the discussion then?

Anyways, this thread presents a bit of an issue. Surfer has covered vast intergalactic distances in moments. Wally cannot compete with such sheer scale, due to being relatively earthbound. What makes matters worse, is that for a long time, when he broke light, he transcended barriers

That being said, it's clear that in relative combat speed, Flash is on an entirely different level when he needs to be.


I typed Waid. I meant Kelly.


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Old Post Feb 24th, 2014 04:54 PM
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DarkSaint85
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Why do there have to be different ways of reading the scene at all?

This isn't some ambiguous dialogue or fight where the writer wants to keep you guessing for fun. It straight out said that he saved the people by carrying them at right under the speed of light.

Anything that involves extrapolating further then that is waste of time as far as I'm concerned. And throwing out the feat for inadmissible is just as bad.


But see, it also straight out says he carried the population of 532,000 people 1,2 people at a time, 35 miles away, in 0.001 microseconds. That is a hell of a lot of quantified numbers. Population, fair enough - but specifically a hill 35 miles away, in that amount of time?

Ultimately, Flash has other feats - completing the race before it starts, outrunning Death, time travelling etc. I just threw this one out because it had lovely quantified numbers on there.


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Old Post Feb 24th, 2014 04:57 PM
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ares834
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
Flash ran to the earth from source wall (at the end of universe) less time in which a human suffocates in space.

Surfer isn't that fast. Nobody is.


Huh, can't really tell what is going on there TBH. But if he truly ran from the source wall to earth in a minute or two Silver Surfer doesn't stand a chance.

Old Post Feb 24th, 2014 04:59 PM
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Rao Kal El
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It is what it is and this type of wrong statements have already been addressed by a MOD and apparently they were made MOD ruling

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/...18#post14207293

First statement of the page

"He can say it all he likes. We take feats above statements, because statements are fallible.

He's been shown physically moving faster than light, both before and after the reboot, on multiple occasions. You can believe that he shouldn't go faster than light. You can not like him doing it. The fact remains, though, that he has done it, and will most likely do it again based on the precedent set.

You can't debate something that factually happened on panel.

So please, move on."

Is as easy as that.

Flash Wins the race if this is straight up speed, if "shenanigans" are allowed then Surfer travels via wormhole and wins


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Last edited by Rao Kal El on Feb 24th, 2014 at 05:04 PM

Old Post Feb 24th, 2014 05:01 PM
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DarkSaint85
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
It is what it is and this type of wrong statements have already been addressed by a MOD and apparently they were made MOD ruling

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/...18#post14207293

First statement of the page

"He can say it all he likes. We take feats above statements, because statements are fallible.

He's been shown physically moving faster than light, both before and after the reboot, on multiple occasions. You can believe that he shouldn't go faster than light. You can not like him doing it. The fact remains, though, that he has done it, and will most likely do it again based on the precedent set.

You can't debate something that factually happened on panel.

So please, move on."

Is as easy as that.

Flash Wins the race if this is straight up speed, if "shananigans" are allowed then Surfer travels via wormhole and wins


Oh, 'shenanigans' are allowed, eh?

Wally speed steals


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Old Post Feb 24th, 2014 05:02 PM
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Rao Kal El
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^ That too ......






stick out tongue


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Old Post Feb 24th, 2014 05:05 PM
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abhilegend
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
Huh, can't really tell what is going on there TBH. But if he truly ran from the source wall to earth in a minute or two Silver Surfer doesn't stand a chance.

Yup, that's what happened. He turned into pure speed in the process.


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Old Post Feb 24th, 2014 05:13 PM
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Bentley
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So yeah, we have more than two feats of Wally outracing Surfer's entire comic history.

We should sticky this thread somewhere so people stop thinking Surfer has a chance in hell in a race.


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Old Post Feb 24th, 2014 05:19 PM
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Rao Kal El
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Last edited by Rao Kal El on Feb 24th, 2014 at 05:33 PM

Old Post Feb 24th, 2014 05:29 PM
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abhilegend
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Who thought Surfer has a chance against Wally? Dude can outrun Death, Big Bang and everything in between. Wally West is, was and will be the fastest man EVER!


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Old Post Feb 24th, 2014 05:35 PM
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pym-ftw
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Seriously? erm

It's obvious that the writer f*cked up there and I ruined a great feat for Wally but are you actually arguing that he was only referring to Wally running OUT of the city and not into it?

Like, if you're arguing that this is one way the feat could make sense, sure. If you're arguing that this was the intention of the writer, then I call shenanigans because that is one retarded assumption.
at the risk of agreeing with Carver the story & statements are written and then the illustrator gets to work. If anything the illustrator took the feat and f*cked it up by expanding it.


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Old Post Feb 24th, 2014 06:04 PM
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DarkSaint85
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How so?


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Old Post Feb 24th, 2014 06:12 PM
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