Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
Anakin Skywalker:
"A Djem So_stylist, and as fine a one as_Dooku_had ever seen." -RotS
Let's all revel in the description of Anakin trashing Dooku immediately after shall we?
"Skywalker was all over him. The shining blue lightsaber whirled and spat and every overhand chop crashed against Dooku's defense with the unstoppable power of a meteor strike; the Sith Lord spent lavishly of his reserve of the Force merely to meet these attacks without being cut in half, and Skywalker—Skywalker was getting stronger.
Each parry cost Dooku more power than he'd used to throw Kenobi across the room; each block aged him a decade. He no longer even tried to strike back. Force exhaustion began to close down his perceptions, drawing his consciousness back down to his physical form, trapping him within his own skull until he could barely even feel the contours of the room around him; he dimly sensed stairs at his back, stairs that led up to the entrance balcony. He retreated up them, using the higher ground for leverage, but Skywalker just kept on coming, tirelessly ferocious. And even now, he was holding himself back; even now, as he landed at Dooku's flank and rained blows upon the Sith Lord's defenses, even as he drove Dooku backward step after step, Dooku could feel how Skywalker kept his fury banked behind walls of will."
-RotS
Obi-Wan Kenobi:
"There is an understated elegance in Obi-Wan Kenobi's lightsaber technique, one that is quite unlike the feel one might get from the other great swordbeings of the Jedi Order. He lacks entirely the flash, the pure bold elan of an Anakin Skywalker; there is nowhere in him the penumbral ferocity of a Mace Windu or a Depa Billaba nor the stylish grace of a Shaak Ti or a Dooku, and he is nothing resembling the whirlwind of destruction that Yoda can become.
He is simplicity itself.
That is his power." - RotS, hardcover, pg. 293-294
Kit Fisto:
"Most of the Jedi are deployed on distant worlds,_but Mace manages to assemble a trio of celebrated swordmasters_to assist him in arresting Palpatine: Agen Kolar, a Zabrak known among the Jedi to strike first and ask questions later; Saesee Tiin, a solitary Iktotchi who has never chosen a Padawan learner;_and Kit Fisto, Nautolan master of Form 1 lightsaber technique, who distinguished himself on Geonosis and Mon Calamari,_and who partnered Mace in battling Grievous on Coruscant."
The Complete Visual Dictionary
"Now Obi-Wan did face him. "Palpatine faced Mace and Agen and Kit and Saesee - four of the greatest swordsmen our Order has ever produced. By_._Even both of us together wouldn't have a chance." -RotS
"Obi-Wan and Kit had been engaged for an hour now, each seeking holes in the other’s defense. Obi-Wan swiftly discovered that Kit was the better swordfighter,_astonishingly aggressive and intuitive_in comparison with Obi-Wan’s more measured style._But the Nautolan gave himself deliberate disadvantages, hampered himself in terms of balance, limited his speed, emphasized his nondominant side to force himself to full attention, the kind of full attention that can be best accessed only when life itself is at risk.To relax and feel the flow of the Force under such stress was the true road to mastery.
For hours the two danced without music, at first falling into a preplanned series of moves and countermoves learned in the Temple under Master Yoda’s tutelage. As they grew more accustomed to each other’s rhythms, they progressed into a flowing web of spontaneous engagement. Slowly, minute by minute, they increased pace, stuttered the rhythm, increasing the acuteness of attack angles and beginning to utilize feints and distractions, binds, rapid changes in level, and to introduce random environmental elements into the interaction:, furniture, walls, slippery floors. To an observer it would have seemed that the two were trying to slaughter each other, but the two knew that they were engaged in the most profound and enjoyable aspect of Jedi play, lightsaber flow."
- The Cestus Deception
I could post far more than that, as a matter of fact if I were bothered enough I'd find the quote where Windu places Anakin above himself for having killed Dooku.
Who is humiliating whom again?
__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
It is common knowledge that all of these Jedi are master swordsmen. However, their accolades are era-specific. They aren't the best in their respective skills in "entire galactic history" like you are trying to imply. Big difference.
Also, most of these accolades represent perceptions of individuals. For example, Dooku may have seen the best Form V user in Anakin, but this doesn't means that Anakin is the greatest master of Form V in galactic history. Considering possibilities, Malgus may kick Anakin's @ss in a duel.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Apr 9th, 2015 at 06:24 AM
Except that Malak's accolade is era specific too and his feats don't match those of Anakin or Obi-Wan unless you consider his feats of beating an exhausted bastila(which he aimed to capture btw) and.... deflecting blaster fire point blank as a show of blade mastery. Which I assure you All three of the aforementioned characters can top.
Form I is a viable dueling form and it is commonly learned and utilized in combat situations.
This is ironic, considering your debating history and interpretations of them. You lecturing others about credibility and nonsensical tripe, really ironic.
Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
Cin Drallig : Because the ancient Jedi did not have lightsaber-wielding enemies, Form I does not address the lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat. - Jedi vs. Sith the Essential guide to the Force
But really I laugh at you using game mechanics to attempt to contradict FIVE sources all stating that Shii-Cho is meant for facing large crowds and blaster deflection. It was never and has never been a dueling form.
You have no right to an opinion on credibility, you are one of the biggest jokes on all Star Wars forums, not just KMC. I am not surprised that you rush to the defense of your lover-boy however.
__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
Who are these greatest Form III and Form V duelists in the lore or galactic history? Your personal inventions?
Also, Anakin and Obi-Wan continued to improve with passage of time. Its not like as if Ventress would be able to handle them in a strict lightsaber duel as of ROTS unless she have improved as well.
As for Revan; in one of his documented dueling encounters, he comfortably outdueled an Imperial Guard in a martial clash. Revan's precognitive abilities are so refined and highly developed that they enable him to accurately predict dueling movements of virtually any opponent and outsmart the opponent in return. Did you forget this?
In addition, Imperial Guards are master swordsmen and specialized in combat against Jedi and Sith.
Kit Fisto being the greatest Form I practitioner is exaggeration. Also, provide evidence of Kit Fisto being able to defeat another master swordsman on the contrary.
Grievous ins't on par with those in dueling ability. Grievous commonly uses unorthodox methods and tricks to overcome his opponents. In addition, he have history of subjecting his opponents to Magnaguards beforehand to worn them out.
It wouldn't surprise me if Revan can predict Grievous's moves and counter then effectively, keeping in mind the former's highly advanced precognitive abilities.
Revan then confronted Darth Malak himself in a fierce duel, but Revan prevailed and finally defeated Darth Malak.
Taken from (Star Wars: The Old Republic Encyclopedia)
Also, Darth Malak have very impressive dueling stats in KoTOR-CG, indicating that he further honed his dueling talents during his reign as the Dark Lord.
Ancient Jedi did not have lightsaber-wielding enemies? So what were ancient Sith using? Sticks?
SWTOR promotes Shii-Cho as "balanced" form.
From Kriea:
"It is simple, and its simplicity is strength."
It seems like Drallig needs history lessons too.
I am aware of mechanics of Shii-Cho. It is the earliest dueling form:
"Form I was created by the ancient Jedi during the transition from metal swords to energy beam lightsabers, and the principles of blade contact remain essentially the same." (Drallig)
However, it would be unwise to assume that Form I cannot be used against a single opponent effectively. Performance in lightsaber dueling arts not just depends upon strict martial prowess and technical knowledge of the Forms but also on the ability to use the Force to complement and augment martial actions and additional factors.
Yes, more advanced lightsaber dueling Forms have been developed to address shortcomings of Form I for lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat, but this doesn't implies that Form I is utterly useless for the aforementioned role.
Per your logic, Form III is not good for lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat role either because it is focused on defensive aspects of combat and designed to counter laserblast.
Every lightsaber dueling Form can be utilized for lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat. Effectiveness varies due to multiple factors such as skill of the lightsaber-wielder, Force abilities of the lightsaber-wielder, mindset, nature and quality of opposition, and more.
The only aspect that I am disliked for by some is for "my liking" of TOR era content. Nothing else.
I am just pointing out the irony of your lecturing to others for their supposedly "abysmal" debating record, when your debating history is far from perfect.
You should concentrate on arguments instead of attacking people. Consider my advice for your own good.
Registered: Oct 2014
Location: France/Rezée (near Nantes)
+ Malak Alek and Revan blade are in O.P. Game mechanicc and stats In KotOR are well meaningless.. Except when we get in the O.P !
Anyway Revan have unorthodox and very personalize dueling technics, even for PT era.....
I mean Revan was not onl a great duelist but a true battle master !!!!!! He beat the shit out of Agen Kolar !!!!!!
For Malak O.K The simplicity of his art in yuyo get completly trashed by Mall....
But Jeeze Revan still a good duelist.. And not for his era only and it have been said an resaid.... Due to sheer amount of inovation and ceartivity put in his arts... We shoud all admit than Revan Still a good duelist...
"However, it would be unwise to assume that Form I cannot be used against a single opponent effectively. Performance in lightsaber dueling arts not just depends upon strict martial prowess and technical knowledge of the Forms but also on the ability to use the Force to complement and augment martial actions and additional factors."
It include preco, and all kind of force boosts.... On this point Ventress cannot win...
Last edited by Revanchiste on Apr 9th, 2015 at 12:12 PM
Registered: Oct 2014
Location: France/Rezée (near Nantes)
+ Malak Alek and Revan blade are in O.P. Game mechanicc and stats In KotOR are well meaningless.. Except when we get in the O.P !
Anyway Revan have unorthodox and very personalize dueling technics, even for PT era.....
I mean Revan was not onl a great duelist but a true battle master !!!!!! He beat the shit out of Agen Kolar !!!!!!
For Malak O.K The simplicity of his art in yuyo get completly trashed by Mall....
But Jeeze Revan still a good duelist.. And not for his era only and it have been said an resaid.... Due to sheer amount of inovation and ceartivity put in his arts... We shoud all admit than Revan Still a good duelist...
"However, it would be unwise to assume that Form I cannot be used against a single opponent effectively. Performance in lightsaber dueling arts not just depends upon strict martial prowess and technical knowledge of the Forms but also on the ability to use the Force to complement and augment martial actions and additional factors."
It include preco, and all kind of force boosts.... On this point Ventress cannot win...
evan combat experience is based on battelfield brawl combined with dueling experience....
Revan have a sheer use of Physical and mental acceleration he used it to mlearn faster
You know in Jedi Knight academmy when you activate force speed, all go like a bullet time mode.... It's called in French accelaration physique et mentale. (I prefer this name....)
It is suche an eveidence than Revan is gifted in this power.. It give time ti think to analyze the ennemy fighting style findinng a way to strike dow his ennemy.. It is such an evidence than it act complementary with his preco...
I don't remember where it is stated, but Revan have used this power to learn and read faster.
+ It is such an evidence after what happen during the fight against vitiate.
I repeat myself but that's important..
Have you ever imagine the impact of such insane skill in this technic in a fight? Well combined with an insane preco you became quasi invincible like Kenobi...
Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
Your reading comprehension is utterly hilarious, I did not state anything as absolute fact. I pointed out that they are easily the best practitioners of their respective forms in the lore. But feel free to continue to contribute absolutely nothing to ghis thread, as per usual.
__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
Please educate yourself with the lore, the Jedi were using them before they encountered the Sith, where in they developed Shii-Cho to counter blaster weilding opponents. When they began to encounter other Force users they developed Form II: Makashi which is the classic dueling form.
My debating history is of harvard quality compared to the insults to logic which you have displayed for years.
__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
Provide feats that place anyone else of those forms as a challenge to three of the best master swordsmen from the peak of the Golden Age of the Jedi that have statements calling them the most developed and greatest users of their forms.
Luke Skywalker whom has the best dueling ability of all time is stated to have replicated Vader's form perfectly by ROTJ and refined it even further afterwards.
Darth Malak and Darth Malgus only have implied mastery of forms and generic great duelist accolades. Falling completely short of the feats that the PT swordsmen can call on.
__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
Apr 9th, 2015 12:16 AM
