It is possible that Zion could defintely be part of the second matrix built by the machines. My question then is what will happen that will allow them to leave the second matrix and what is outside that matrix like?
__________________ "If you do a bad thing for a good reason, does that bad thing become a good thing? Or is it still a bad thing? And if so, how can it possibly be good to do it?
trav,
Not necessarily. The Matrix is supposed to be a representation of a "real" world. But there were those that had that "splinter in the mind" who thought something wasn't right, and rejected the program. However, the "Zion realm" is such an "unreal" world, that how could anyone tell that "something isnt quite right" as what would they have to compare it to? As far as anomolies, I would think Zion would be part of the same Matrix (just a diff program) so therefore 1 Matrix = 1 anomoly. Not stating all this as true, just part of my hypothosis.
I would buy that, 1 matrix 1 anomoly. It think you could definetly be right on the fact that Zion could be a second part of the matrix? My question then is wouldn't bane become smith in the second matrix or Zion world, if it was still part of the program?
__________________ "If you do a bad thing for a good reason, does that bad thing become a good thing? Or is it still a bad thing? And if so, how can it possibly be good to do it?
I think Bane IS Smith, he just doesn't look like him.
Smith would know that to be an effective infiltrator, he would have to remain looking like Bane. Since everything in the Matrix is code, Smith would just not copy his "looks" code, but copy everything else into Bane. The whole fact that Smith is able to enter Bane and exist in the so called "real world" of Zion, I think further supports the fact that Zion is just another part of the Matrix.
Gender: Unspecified Location: North Bergen New Jersey
I posted that string in two other thread here. Sent people into a TIZZY! LOL!!! I posted similar lines of thought in the Architect thread and another thread.
Trav, there is no other Matrix. The big machine would encompass the entire planet with the main central core station in North America. Satellite cores are on other continents. Where in North America? Possibly in the Mountain region of the west. The Rockies, the Sierras, the Cascades, or the Tetons. It would sit on the surface and deep under the ground. The same on the other continents with tendrils of networking reaching back to the Main Central Core in North America. Zion would be a make believe world created by the A.I. to pacify a small group of humans it uses for stimulous.
Well, I guess we are definitely thinking the same thing!
As far as the physical location of the machine's central computer, that's really irrelevant, as it could be located anywhere in the world (just like internet servers).
True, it does support in part that Zion could be a second matrix, but why wouldn't smith, when copying just put himself and not his whole image into a person. It would be just as easy to sneak up on Neo in the 1st matrix as well as the second.
Also, it could be that Smith's mind was placed into Bane's body, because when you die in the matrix you die in the Zion world, so therefore he would be smith's brain.
__________________ "If you do a bad thing for a good reason, does that bad thing become a good thing? Or is it still a bad thing? And if so, how can it possibly be good to do it?
I agree with you on the location, it doesn't really matter. So the Zion's world is a level within the matrix, my question then is what would stop the architect from destroying zion and rebuilding that level. Why would it be so important for the one to choose to rebuild Zion?
__________________ "If you do a bad thing for a good reason, does that bad thing become a good thing? Or is it still a bad thing? And if so, how can it possibly be good to do it?
At first, Smith didn't feel like he needed to "sneak up" on anyone. Besides he wasn't even able to copy himself in M1. He wasn't able to do that until after Neo "destroyed" him. Also, remember the agents (and Smith) think Neo is "only human" and that they are superior. However, now he realizes Neo is a formidable foe, and inflitrating Zion might be a more effective way to kill him.
I'd have to watch M2 again to answer that. During the scene with the architect, the volume in the theater was pretty low, and I didn't quite catch everything. And even what I could hear was hard to follow. I really need to watch M2 again.
Gender: Unspecified Location: North Bergen New Jersey
The A.I. does not "need" to destroy Zion. Being that it was "destroyed" 5 times before and this time will be the 6th time is evidence that Zion is meerly a program mental similation for the humans. 250,000 individual minds is not a problem for the A.I. great machine. In turn it becomes the humans itself... symbiotic relationship and a blending of mentality.
That could be right, killing him in Zion would be more effective, but would it make a difference now, if Zion is a part of the matrix?
__________________ "If you do a bad thing for a good reason, does that bad thing become a good thing? Or is it still a bad thing? And if so, how can it possibly be good to do it?
Gender: Unspecified Location: North Bergen New Jersey
It would make a difference to the humans involved. For the A.I. it is further stimulous. Plus it give it the opportunity to jettison the humans in the pods who actually died or were dying and replace it with more evolved and specialized human produce.
I didn't realize there was a thread dedicated to the whole "More than one Matrix - is Zion part of the Matrix" idea. I'm going to contact an admin and see if everything from my first post down could be moved there.
Very good write up. There is one aspect of the movie I have not heard any anylisis on, even after searching the internet. Seraph, in the Holy Bible, are angels. The Oracle's protector, Seraph, had a gold glow to him and was not comprised of matrix code when Neo looked at him. He also says he is not a programmer and he protects that which is most important. Perhaps the Oracle is not a program but God him/her self. The first movie was full of Jesus and God references. (The guy who buys the program from Neo, Mark III No.11 on the Neb plack, etc...) Perhaps its just a red herring. However, the idea does seem to fall in-line with the Architect saying "Please" when Neo guesses the mother of the Matrix is the Oracle. Also several movies I have seen dipict God as a woman. Dogma, and one from the eightys that I don't remember the title of.
What relation does the architect have in regards to the matrix, he is the one who designed it, does that mean he knows all the shortcuts, backways and programming doors to it? If so, how is it that the other programs could hide from him and couldn't he just delete any unwanted file from the matrix, or does he not have that kind of control?
__________________ "If you do a bad thing for a good reason, does that bad thing become a good thing? Or is it still a bad thing? And if so, how can it possibly be good to do it?
The writers of the Matrix are post-modernists. They in no wise claim the Christian faith. In fact, the Matrix is an attack on rules. And the biblical references are just to include Christianity in the machine world, which represents rules and how they seek to control us. Whereas if we realize that we are not subject to these rules, we can "free our minds" and reach our true potential, depicted by Neo and his being the One
__________________ "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways ackowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths." - Proverbs 3:5,6
I think that your reading alittle to much into the Yellow code that seraph was made outof, she isnt actual god, but she is reponsible for the current version of the matrix
I don't know about the archietect, but I know Smith and Neo will meet again, why though? What has made smith so bent on killing Neo?
__________________ "If you do a bad thing for a good reason, does that bad thing become a good thing? Or is it still a bad thing? And if so, how can it possibly be good to do it?
KMC Community Forums
Jun 5th, 2003 07:52 PM
I posted similar lines of thought in the Architect thread and another thread.
