Buu did not scratch Goku, but this is another art fallacy. Seldom do you ever see anybody on this show get "scratched" from punches unless it is a critical hit. Krillin did draw blood though, albeit with the kiezan.
Because he is much stronger in Blue, duh! :P
Okay, so you concede that Beerus was holding back against Goku and that his showing against Beerus is in no way relevant to our conversation here? Excellent. And nope, Goku never withstood an all out attack from Beerus while in black hair and that's on account of us retroactively and canonically knowing that Beerus is far and beyond Goku in every conceivable fashion.
And no, same can't be said here as we have no point of reference at which we can infer that Goku could have tried much harder but didn't. Beerus goes from trading blows with Goku to effortlessly blowing away something Goku couldn't began to dispel on his own Beerus goes from trading blows with Goku to effortlessly knokcing down someone who SSB Goku could only stalemate. That's proof positive that Beerus was retroactively holding back.
In order for your argument to work, we'd have to have a case of Krillin's plot powered tactics/experience failing against an opponent Base Goku utterly stomps on. You have presented no such evidence. Instead, you've spent four pages trying to pass off your head canon as fact. As such, we have a base Goku who not only couldn't penetrate Krillin's defenses but got overwhelmed to the point of being forced to go Super Saiyan. We then see that Goku, Gohan, and 18 are legitimately impressed with Krillin's efforts. What's more, Krillin never once chastizes Goku for "holding back" during the early segments of the fight as he did with Gohan.
According to your headcanon, sure. According to the facts though . . . deal with it?
Last edited by Dark-Kenshin on Aug 27th, 2017 at 05:34 PM
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
You asked me where the plot provided boost could be found at. I showed you or are you suggesting that Buu saga (or hell, even episode 75 Krillin) Krillin could do fine against a Majin Buu level opponent?
He having trouble grasping the fact that these writers can do whatever the hell they want and whenever the hell they want it. Hell, if tomorrow, they wanted Chiaotzu to be strong enough to pimp slap Whis and Beerus at the same time, they could do and there wouldn't be a damn thing fans could do about it.
Last edited by Dark-Kenshin on Aug 27th, 2017 at 05:50 PM
There's no need for me to reply to any of your posts since its obvious you don't look at the show, you glance at the pretty clips. Dragonball Super #18... here you go.
Look at it for the first time. It states "when he is asleep, he doesn't bother holding back when he s asleep". Goku tanks an all out hit from Beerus and then withstands a blast from Beerus. Please look at all of the episodes before debating against me.
Lol...art fallacy. You seem to be discrediting a lot of Goku showings but creating imaginary Krillin showings.
I never said I, carver9 thought Beerus was holding back, I said YOU said he was holding back. Get it? Anyways, I provided all of the episodes for you to watch. We can discuss later.
I don't look at the show . . . because I don't agree with your head-canon and am willing to accept what we plainly see happen on screen? Okay.
What are you even on about in regards to Goku and Beerus? Unless I'm mistaken, this is a weaker version of a Goku who can't break out of a god of destruction sphere that Beerus can easily dispel with his breath alone. Good on Goku for not dying from a random tail swipe and being saved by Vegeta I guess, but Beerus >>>>> Goku, contrary to what you tried to tell me in your other posts. That's canon. Deal with it.
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
It's art fallacy or else we reach the conclusion that the machine gun bullets that scratched base Goku's arm > Fat Buu's punches or Beerus' tail swipes. Think about these various points before you make them. And I'll side with what actual happens in these episodes over fanboy head canon any day of the week. Otherwise, I'd end up trying to do stuff like disprove that the 84th episode of DBS ever happened or spouting stuff like base goku being on par with Beerus. Get a grip, man.
Even though he doesn't actively hold back his strength when he sleeps, that doesn't mean he spends his nights powered up and striking things as hard as he can.
Out of the bedroom.. It's always the dominant personalities who bottom.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
Let's correct this. An all out tail swipe and blast from Beerus. Something that we both know Krillin would've died from. You can mention whatever what you want to mention but it doesn't change anything. The sad thing is, you keep mentioning how far above Beerus is over Goku due to outside fts but you are ignoring Base Goku fts. Here's another one you are going to ignore. Goku takes on all of Universe 9 by himself and was winning.
They resorted to an attack that they only use against stronger opponents (which means they conceded that Goku is stronger). Remember, 1 of them is Buu level. Goku in base took on all 3 of them by himself and was stomping them on his lonesome. Goku went against Beerus and stalemated him but you're ignoring this because of outside fts. Goku took on beings that's on Buu level and is above Krillin level and he was winning but guess what you're going to do? This is trolling to it finest.
Are you implying Goku was at full power in his base form when he fought against those thugs? You are getting funnier by the second.
Lol at you telling me to think but you sitting here saying Krillin is on base Goku level. You are hilarious. You need to think.
Lol...you need to get a grip. You are ignoring Goku fight against Beerus even though he held his own but accepting Krillin fight against base Goku. You are acting like a legit hypocrite.
So because I choose to accept what we plainly see on screen as opposed to some fanboy assumptions, I'm now trolling? Again, get a grip. This is why I don't usually waste time in versus threads, especially of the DBZ or SW variety. Lots of koolaid drinking and headcanon, but very little objective factual analysis.
I have no idea what post episode 84 Krillin would live and die from. All I know is that an editorial decision was made to make him relevant enough to be in the tournament of power. Same goes for the other 8 candidates not named Goku/Vegeta. This editorial decision was not premised on any of the assumptions you're making (Goku holding back in his base form or whatever). Instead, we're told that Krillin super special awesome due to his skills and experience. Goku assures us that Krillin can handle himself and we see him handle himself just fine. We even see Goku getting overhwhelmed and going Super Saiyan to avoid losing to Krillin.
In an effort to prove that Goku was playing around against Krillin in base, you brought up Goku's feats Beerus. The idea being that Base Goku = Beerus (because if not, I have no idea why you're mentioning it). Frankly, the writing regarding Beerus power level has always been pretty crappy (going all the way back to BoG where he says he's using 80% of his full power, to Toriyama saying Beerus is a 10 and SSG Goku is a 6, to Whis saying SSB Goku and Vegeta could beat Beerus in the ROF movie to Beerus saying he could beat SSB KKx10 Goku to Beerus now indefinitely being above Goku and Vegeta simply because we're told he is). Even so, regardless of how crappy the writing is, we know that as of now, Beerus is leagues above every version of Goku, so you citing him trading blows against Beerus on one occassion is about as relevant as SSJ2 Vegeta having gotten in some good shots against Beerus during the BoG arc; not relevant at all.
You speak a lot about feats such as Goku get tailswiped by Beerus or Copy Vegeta shrugging off punches from SSj3 Gotenks and whatnot, but if the writers have arbitrarily decided that Krillin needs to be on a level where he can compete with Base Goku, then it doesn't matter. Like I said, if tomorrow, the writers wanted Chaotzu to to make Beerus look a baby, they could so and fan would have zero say in the matter.
You bring up Goku fighting U9. And although what you've said doesn't line up with what happened in your own clip (drop the fanboy act of interpreting each and every fact in a way that is most beneficial to your agenda and it'll go a long ways towards improving your debate skills) (Goku didn't beat the whole team by himself, Vegeta ended up having to step in to help him, both Goku and Vegeta ended up having to go SSJ and later SSB), Krillin's fighting style doesn't seem like it'd work in a non 1 v. 1 situation. When we look at the fight with Goku, he's engaging in a bunch of tricks and tactics that that probably leave himself wide open in a group battle. If he got the drop on U9, he might be able to bank it on a solar flare x 100/multiple-kiezan combo, but that's a lot of ifs, so it's apples and oranges. So no, I don't see him being able to replicate Goku's feat.
The hilarious thing about this thread is that the discussion isn't even about base goku, but an opponent who base Goku (and arguably even Base gohan now) could royally sh-t on with both hands tied. Yet the Krillin hate boner is so strong than for reasons unknown, is omnipotent in comparison. Give me a break.
Last edited by Dark-Kenshin on Aug 27th, 2017 at 11:38 PM
Do you not see the picking and choosing in your posts? Lol... I'm lost on why you don't see this. You keep discrediting Goku showings but clinging to Krillins. If you're going to accept his showings then you need to accept Gokus as well. Stop being a hypocrite. Now you're bringing up bad writing for Beerus vs base Goku. Lol, at least be consistent. Is Krillin showing against Goku good writing while Goku showing against Beerus bad writing? Who are you to decide something like that?
Goku fts while in base is higher than what Krillin can dream about accomplishing. Also, lol, just because Krillin isn't in the tournament doesn't mean he is on base Goku level. Your arguments are all over the place. Tien is in the tournament as well and he almost got dropped from a single hit from the same Gohan who base Goku matched. It's like I'm arguing with a wall. Either accept Goku being Beerus equal in his base form or deny both Krillin and Goku showing.
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