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Wonder Woman Vs Flash
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bluewaterrider
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Oh, if we are posting scans where the combatants are master strategists:

Wally out-thinks a supercomputer the size of a sun - faith placed in him by no less than Batman, who tells him to be ready to out-think the ultimate computer:

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...51475-29623.jpg


sad

Ah, man ... BATMAN has faith in Wally's strategizing?


I may have to concede if THAT's the case ...

Old Post Nov 1st, 2017 10:09 PM
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DarkSaint85
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And the previous showing of Wally absorbing WW's KE (not too much, mind; having your ally frozen in battle is frowned upon):
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-hmXxDIeq...jla-jsa-066.jpg

quote: (post)
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
sad

Ah, man ... BATMAN has faith in Wally's strategizing?


I may have to concede if THAT's the case ...


I note WW was also right there, but wasn't called upon.....

Did you see my speedsteal scans? More than a 'couple' of instances, won't you say?

Edit: so, in summary so far:

Wally has used speedsteal, on more than one occasion.

WW has no defence against it.

Whilst WW can be a shrewd tactician, so can Wally.


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Last edited by DarkSaint85 on Nov 1st, 2017 at 10:15 PM

Old Post Nov 1st, 2017 10:12 PM
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bluewaterrider
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Did you see my speedsteal scans?
More than a 'couple' of instances, won't you say?



It's enough to make speed-stealing a practical option.

Now the only questions are to what degree speed stealing would work on someone like Diana if Flash decided to try that, and IF Speed-stealing would actually work on her to begin with.

It didn't work on Zoom, was only partially effective on Amazo, would have worked on Superman yet was something Flash felt he dare not try, but worked on Inertia apparently to the point Flash could effectively stop him for all time.

The question in my mind is what DC has decided for Diana who is empowered by gods who were empowered by the Godwave. Because it was apparently retconned or revealed that the Speedforce is a secondary force CREATED by the Godwave. And Diana is both beneficiary of Godwave AND has proven able to access that force.

It's an interesting question.

Old Post Nov 1st, 2017 10:27 PM
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carver9
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Speed steal is Flash only hope and if they are fighting in character, he isn't using it. Diana wins 8/9 - 10.


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Old Post Nov 1st, 2017 10:29 PM
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DarkSaint85
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In character he's not harming his friend. Nor is he stupid enough to let her tag him in hth combat.

Unless you think he spams IMPs or kicks her like he did against Flashpoint WW?

He knows her. He knows her skills. Why would he try and fight mano a mano with her??


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Old Post Nov 1st, 2017 10:32 PM
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bluewaterrider
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Godwave and Speedforce questions will take some research.

Absent them, i.m.p.'s become the next area of concern.

Practical questions are:

1. Can Wally feasibly be expected to land more than one near-infinite mass punch IF he gets off one to begin with?

I'm doubting that he can, for the simple reason that the force of the blow, at least modeled on the one we actually saw, results in an instant mini-BFR, knocking the opponent far away at an unpredictable angle.

2. Can Flash get one of these off before Wondy takes to the air or thunderclaps?

3. Can Wally go through an attack like a thunderclap without getting knocked out?

4. Can Wondy endure one or more of these?

5. Would going for I.m.p.s backfire on Flash?


For those thinking Wondy could not possibly remain conscious for even one punch of imp-magnitude, it's worth pointing out that she famously took a punch that literally launched her from somewhere near the SUN, over 30 MILLION miles away, all the way back to Earth, in a fight that, of necessity, took place at speeds near or in excess of light speed. And ultimately came out the winner of that fight.

Wonder Woman #219, Volume 2.
The "Sacrifice" fight against Superman :

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Old Post Nov 1st, 2017 10:46 PM
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bluewaterrider
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Worth pointing out something I rarely see, and that is that besides being durable enough to take some serious knockout force, Wondy also has the ability to nearly instantly heal damage to her body. I'm not sure how often she does this, though I'd wager it has happened at least as many times as i.m.p., but it is worth knowing she DOES have this ability ...

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Source: Wonder Woman #6(?), Volume 2
Arc: Wonder Woman versus Decay (precedes Ares fight)

Old Post Nov 1st, 2017 11:05 PM
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carver9
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
In character he's not harming his friend. Nor is he stupid enough to let her tag him in hth combat.

Unless you think he spams IMPs or kicks her like he did against Flashpoint WW?

He knows her. He knows her skills. Why would he try and fight mano a mano with her??


I just don't see these fights like this on KMC. When we make matches, I thought they fight in character but at the same time, they are trying to take each other out. Not using the friend factor as a set back. If that was the case, why would they even fight in the first place if we are playing the friend card. They could just stand there and end this in a stalemate.

I just think Diana is fast enough to tag him. Amazo was said to be faster than Superman and Diana was still able to blitz him and hang with him far better than any JLA.

He does know her but do you remember this scene???

https://i.imgur.com/4uZO9VL.jpg

Amazon was said to have the speed of Flash (along with other speedsters) and Diana was able to fully tie him up before he could perceive it. Flash isn't winning this.


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Old Post Nov 1st, 2017 11:32 PM
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riv6672
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quote:
just don't see these fights like this on KMC. When we make matches, I thought they fight in character but at the same time, they are trying to take each other out. Not using the friend factor as a set back. If that was the case, why would they even fight in the first place if we are playing the friend card. They could just stand there and end this in a stalemate.

Yeah, no shit.
Its why i stay away from 'blood lust' battles. In character is more interesting.
Basically, and this is just my opinion, you can tell how hard it is for a character to win, the more caveats are brought up in the debate that might possibly favor them.
Speed blitz is pretty classic, even though, in character, most heroes/villains don't fight like the Flash.
Common knowledge, thats a good one when posters are reaching.
Characters brain raping, get off my lawning, sleep pellets take out Galactus, turning opponents to salt...basically one shotting their opponents, when again, in character? They dont do that.
Now i guess we have the friend card? Nice.

Then we get 'characters fight to the best of their abilities' 'but they're still in character' circular arguments, which is when i lose interest/flip the channel.

Sometimes it takes more guts to just say 'Yeah, the character i like better loses this fight. Good one'.
Cuz it takes guts to post on an MB dammit.


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Last edited by riv6672 on Nov 2nd, 2017 at 02:26 AM

Old Post Nov 2nd, 2017 02:23 AM
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bluewaterrider
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Don't know about anybody else, I'm curious what researching the actual comic record suggests AND how other people think and what criteria they're using, AND because the topic itself is an intriguing one.


It's JUST science-y enough to warrant semi-serious consideration from students of physics, for instance:


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IpTwsJaLvA4

Old Post Nov 2nd, 2017 04:10 AM
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DarkSaint85
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
It didn't work on Zoom, was only partially effective on Amazo, would have worked on Superman yet was something Flash felt he dare not try, but worked on Inertia apparently to the point Flash could effectively stop him for all time.


It also worked on Superman Blue/Max MErcury et al, WW/Superman et al, Girder, JAy Garrick etc. There were a ton of scans I posted.

quote:

The question in my mind is what DC has decided for Diana who is empowered by gods who were empowered by the Godwave. Because it was apparently retconned or revealed that the Speedforce is a secondary force CREATED by the Godwave. And Diana is both beneficiary of Godwave AND has proven able to access that force.

It's an interesting question.

Speed Force was retconned. It's not a result of the Godwave anymore. Barry Allen created it.

(please log in to view the image)


Plus, Wally has taken speed from WW before (as seen in my speedsteal scans).

WW has never been shown to access the speed force under her own power. She was amped the only time she accessed it.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by carver9
I just don't see these fights like this on KMC. When we make matches, I thought they fight in character but at the same time, they are trying to take each other out. Not using the friend factor as a set back. If that was the case, why would they even fight in the first place if we are playing the friend card. They could just stand there and end this in a stalemate.


Then if Wally sees her as an enemy he needs to take out, then...what's the problem here, lol.

quote:

I just think Diana is fast enough to tag him. Amazo was said to be faster than Superman and Diana was still able to blitz him and hang with him far better than any JLA.

He does know her but do you remember this scene???

https://i.imgur.com/4uZO9VL.jpg

Amazon was said to have the speed of Flash (along with other speedsters) and Diana was able to fully tie him up before he could perceive it. Flash isn't winning this.


And Batman is shown to be taking some tool from his belt and cutting his legs off before he could kick Batman away. So based on that scan, Batman is faster than Flash?

Because let's ignore Amazo for a moment. ABC logic never works. You and I both know this.

In a DIRECT comparison between the two:

(please log in to view the image)

He leaves her in his wake, whilst running backwards.

And am sure you've seen this scan. Wally outreacts a beam of light, and saves WW, who couldn't even react:
https://s5.postimg.org/71yrr4ggn/image.jpg
(please log in to view the image)

Not to mention, Flashpoint WW.

You can use A>B>C logic all day. That always ends with Batman being the strongest/fastest/cleverest member of the JLA lol. But in DIRECT comparison, Wally comes out on top against WW.


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Last edited by DarkSaint85 on Nov 2nd, 2017 at 07:51 AM

Old Post Nov 2nd, 2017 07:48 AM
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DarkSaint85
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And if we're talking about speed healing....

https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qi...7676504a8689683

Walter West there. I also have other scans of him speed healing, and healing others.


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Last edited by DarkSaint85 on Nov 2nd, 2017 at 08:36 AM

Old Post Nov 2nd, 2017 08:24 AM
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riv6672
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Don't know about anybody else, I'm curious what researching the actual comic record suggests AND how other people think and what criteria they're using, AND because the topic itself is an intriguing one.


It's JUST science-y enough to warrant semi-serious consideration from students of physics, for instance:


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IpTwsJaLvA4

I've seen this before; very interesting! thumb up


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That's not a bat. This...is a bat.

Old Post Nov 2nd, 2017 10:05 AM
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carver9
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@Darksaint,

Batman was only able to cut at his legs because Diana had him tied up AND Amazo was dodging an attack from Superman (and succeeded). He didn't even attempt to kick. Diana blitzed him during mid sentence while he was getting ready to attack. We know it was meant to be a speed ft because it out right says it as soon as she is done attacking. The thing that makes it even more interesting is Amazo being able to react to Superman blitzing over trying to take out his eyes. Your argument would've been solid if Amazo attempted to kick them off but he didn't. He did dodge Supes though.

Come on Darksaint, the scan you posted of Flash saving Wonder Woman, she wasn't even looking at him/Lantern. We know for a FACT that if Diana seen that attack coming, she would've dodged or slapped the blast out of the way.


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Old Post Nov 2nd, 2017 11:52 AM
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DarkSaint85
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by carver9
@Darksaint,

Batman was only able to cut at his legs because Diana had him tied up AND Amazo was dodging an attack from Superman (and succeeded). He didn't even attempt to kick. Diana blitzed him during mid sentence while he was getting ready to attack. We know it was meant to be a speed ft because it out right says it as soon as she is done attacking. The thing that makes it even more interesting is Amazo being able to react to Superman blitzing over trying to take out his eyes. Your argument would've been solid if Amazo attempted to kick them off but he didn't. He did dodge Supes though.

Come on Darksaint, the scan you posted of Flash saving Wonder Woman, she wasn't even looking at him/Lantern. We know for a FACT that if Diana seen that attack coming, she would've dodged or slapped the blast out of the way.


There are scans of WW without sight doing pretty ok. Hell, I'm sure you've seen her without eyes against Zoom. So sight isn't the issue - she hasn't even had time to register that she was under attack, and in that time,Flash has scanned 500,000 people, found the culprits, carried them over to GL, and placed them right in front of the beam.

Before she even knows she's being attacked.

Look at your scan again. His legs aren't tied up at all. Batman managed to grab his leg, go into his utility belt, select the correct tool,and make a pretty big cut in his legs. All before Amazo can even try to kick him off. Look at your scan again....Bats has empty hands when he grabs Amazo. Yet had time to select the right tools to cut.

He didn't attempt to,because Batman was too fast. No other reason, his legs weren't tied up....unless you're saying he WANTED his legs cut off?

If a guy grabs you whilst your arms are pinned down, and starts cutting your legs off....you're telling me you wouldn't kick him away? Of course you would. But how long would it take before you started kicking him lol?


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Old Post Nov 2nd, 2017 12:06 PM
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bluewaterrider
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by carver9

Come on Darksaint, the scan you posted of Flash saving Wonder Woman, she wasn't even looking at him/Lantern. We know for a FACT that if Diana seen that attack coming, she would've dodged or slapped the blast out of the way.



Combatting this scale of misrepresentation is the other reason I post.

DS presents this as a failure of Wonder Woman to react at speed when it's really a case of Wonder Woman not reacting to a friend suddenly and unexpectedly turning foe WHILE SHE IS CONCENTRATING ON SAVING THE LIVES OF THOUSANDS.

The showing in question comes again from the Terror Incognito storyline, JLA #56 and 57, if memory serves. It is the return of the White Martians storyline, just before the Justice League discovers THAT the White Martians are a threat once again. The Martians take over the minds of some engineers in Murmansk, which is a place in DC Russia, I believe, and manage to cause a nuclear explosion. Fortunately, Green Lantern, Flash, Plastic Man and Wonder Woman are all on hand ...

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Old Post Nov 2nd, 2017 01:06 PM
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DarkSaint85
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So my original point still stands.

Wally was able to react to a friend (if memory serves, Kyle was his best friend in the League) unexpectedly turning foe and attacking his allies.

WW was not.

Flash too was also involved in SAVING THE LIVES OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE.

He still reacted, when WW hadn't even moved.

No misrepresentation there.

I wanted to convey the scale of his actions. How he was able to realise, scan,pick up, carry and hurl them all in the same span of time where WW was frozen.

If you wanted to combat misrepresentation, why do you post Injustice Wonder Woman scans in this thread?


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Old Post Nov 2nd, 2017 01:37 PM
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bluewaterrider
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I'm focusing on speed because the opening post gives the erroneous idea that Wonder Woman can only move about as fast as a fighter jet,
by describing "speed of Mercury" as Mach 3.

That needs to be dealt with, because, in reality, Wonder Woman has proven capable of capturing Flash while he is moving at very fast speeds indeed.
One good example of this is in JLA #77, where the JLA encounter an AWESOMELY dangerous device called the "Mnemon" ...



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Old Post Nov 2nd, 2017 01:43 PM
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DarkSaint85
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That's Wally who isn't in his right mind,again,as I said in one of my first few posts (and subsequently emphasised).

I'm not focussing too much on the OP - because I don't low ball. By that I mean, I've def seen WWabove Mach 3, hence why I didn't say anything about it.

Moreover, I have gone on record here in the forums insisting it doesn't mean much.

Let's say I have a Ferrari. I'm driving down the road, currently at 50mph.

Does that mean I'm limited to 50mph? No. It merely is a snapshot in time of what my current speed is.

Hence why I didn't say a peep.


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Old Post Nov 2nd, 2017 01:48 PM
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bluewaterrider
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So my original point still stands.

Wally was able to react to a friend (if memory serves, Kyle was his best friend in the League) unexpectedly turning foe and attacking his allies.

WW was not.

Flash too was also involved in SAVING THE LIVES OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE.

He still reacted, when WW hadn't even moved.

No misrepresentation there.

I wanted to convey the scale of his actions. How he was able to realise, scan,pick up, carry and hurl them all in the same span of time where WW was frozen.




Very sizeable misrepresentation.

Flash is able to react because he is LOOKING at Green Lantern when Lantern attacks Wonder Woman.

Diana has her head turned, still focusing on the people she is saving.




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Old Post Nov 2nd, 2017 01:59 PM
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