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Counterterrorism Expert: U.S. Gun Policy Poses a National Security Threat
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DarthSkywalker0
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by lazybones
That's honestly very interesting, haven't seen mass shootings broken down that way before. On the other hand, though, there was a recent study which found that the US only has 5% of the world's population but 31% of its mass-shootings, so that would suggest it's still a much bigger problem in America than other countries.

https://www.ft.com/__origami/servic...n&width=500


This study is quite frankly inaccurate. The crimonlogist Gary Kleck has detailed his issues with the studies. I will mention a few.

Problem 1: The study attempts to analyize 46 years of data. The problem with this is that, "while data may be easily found for U.S. shootings, compiling information for developing nations could be all but impossible.". Due to the artificially low data, it creates a potempkin phasad that indicates that U.S. represents a higher bulk of mass shootings then it actually does.

Problem 2: Lankford, the author of the study, has not yet provided his methodology as to how he found the mass-shooting rates in developing countries. While Fox certainly is a skewed source, I found this passage interesting.

quote:
When asked for his data by FoxNews.com, Lankford declined to provide it. In his study, Lankford says he took NYPD data on mass shootings -- which he acknowledges misses international cases -- and "supplemented [it] with additional data” internationally. Lankford does not say exactly how he collected that additional international data, just noting that it came from searches of “open source” documents and that “all efforts were made to ensure that the same data collection methodology employed by the NYPD was used.”

The NYPD notes that its own researchers “limited [their] Internet searches to English-language sites,” therefore under-counting foreign mass shootings.

FoxNews.com asked Lankford whether he used the same language method as the NYPD, or if he searched using more than just English. Lankford replied that, “my data were not limited to English-language searches." Asked what languages he used in his searches, Lankford declined to provide that information.

“Lankford does not claim to be able to read all the languages used in those 171 nations, or to have made use of others with this ability,” Kleck said. “This method would result in a near-total omission of relevant news stories outside of the English-speaking part of the world.”

Lankford said he may share his methods with fellow scholars at a later date.

"I am open-minded about sharing data with other scholars for collaborative purposes, and consider those opportunities on a case-by-case basis. This is all the assistance I can provide at this time,”


Problem 3: The lack of peer review. To quote Kleck and professor Reed,

quote:
No qualified scholar would accept work by a researcher who could not, or would not, even explain exactly how he measured his most important variable [mass shootings],


quote:
Any research that seeks to influence the public debate on this topic, as this research clearly does, should be required to make their data available so that other researchers can confirm their findings,”


The only people who reviewed the study were anonymous, independent researchers.

Problem 4: Even if the data were true, the US does not have the highest mass-shooting mortallity per capita.

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Problem 5: I am now going to cite a graph which has a lot of contention and hopefully justify its usage.

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So, there are two studies which have different results then this graph. So, why is this analysis more accurate then the other two. The first contrary analysis was conducted by Everytown for Gun Safety. The first fault is that it includes masshootings in private homes. The problem with including private homes is that the reasoning behind a public and private mass shooting is notably different.(Drug crimes, robery, kidnapping, murder). So, the research which is inside of this graph looks as at mass public shootings. Here is the FBI's definition of a mass public shooting:

quote:
The FBI definition of mass public shootings excludes “shootings that resulted from gang or drug violence” or that were part of some other crime. The FBI also defines “public” places as “includ[ing] commercial areas (divided into malls, businesses open to pedestrian traffic, and businesses closed to pedestrian traffic), educational environments (divided into schools [pre-kindergarten through 12th grade] and IHEs), open spaces, government properties (divided into military and other government properties), houses of worship, and health care facilities.”



They also mislabel over 18 mass shootings. Those mislables can be found here: https://crimeresearch.org/2014/09/m...mass-shootings/

The second contrary study is inside Louis Klarevas. The issue with Klarevas is that he does not use the FBI definition of mass shootings. To quote Klarevas,

quote:
In all fairness to Lott, when he conducted his study, he employed a definition of mass shootings that was different from the ones used by Duwe’s team and myself. . . . he disqualified all shooting incidents that were part of a broader crime: ‘gang activity; drug dealing; a holdup or robbery; drive-by shootings that explicitly or implicitly involved gang activity; organized crime, or professional hits; and serial killings, or killings that took place over the span of more than one day.'”


Here is the FBI definition of a mass shooting.

quote:
The FBI definition of mass public shootings excludes “shootings that resulted from gang or drug violence” or that were part of some other crime.33 The FBI also defines “public” places as “includ[ing] commercial areas (divided into malls, businesses open to pedestrian traffic, and busi- nesses closed to pedestrian traffic), educational environments (divided into schools [pre-kindergarten through twelfth grade] and IHEs), open spaces, government properties (divided into military and other govern- ment properties), houses of worship, and healthcare facilities.”


So it is my contention that Lott's graph is the most accurate.

Problem 6: All mass shootings, including private ones, make up less then 1% of firearm homicides. And of course there is the study by Gium which indicates that assault rifle bans increase public mass shootings.

quote:
The purpose of the present study is to determine the effects of federal and state assault weapons bans on public mass shootings. Using a Poisson effect model and data for the period 1982 to 2011, it was found that both state and federal assault weapons bans have statistically significant and negative effects on mass shooting fatalities but that only the federal assault weapons ban had a negative effect on mass shooting injuries. This study is one of the first studies that looks solely at the effects of assault weapons bans on public mass shootings.


quote:
All that being said, the musings of a counter terrorist expert are not flawless. But I doubt someone with almost 3 decades of experience would be ignorant of the statistics, and must have good reasons for his concerns (one of them being the words and claims of the terrorists themselves).


He did not provide any evidence to substaite his claims. So, while he may be aware of studies which I did not mention in either of my posts, he never cited any.

quote:
You underestimate the determination of this statist. wink.

Anyway, I'll be getting a new computer on Wednesday which will free me from the malaise of my smartphone. You could use the time between now and then to write up a plea for mercy, and perhaps I will consider it. smile.


I look forward to it. Good luck.

Old Post Jan 1st, 2018 09:59 PM
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Adam_PoE
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quote:
Originally posted by SquallX
Be quiet. You’re just spewing crap now.

Buying a weapon on a country you live, is not the same as a refugee seeking to come here.


Yet, it did not stop you from drawing the comparison, did it?

You questioned why "the left" is concerned about terrorists threatening to buy firearms for use in terror attacks, but not about terrorists threatening to enter the country as refugees.

And I explained to you that there is a 24-month long vetting process to enter the country as a refugee, but one can purchase a firearm without so much as background check.

There is a system in place to stop one threat, but not the other. That is why.


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Old Post Jan 1st, 2018 10:25 PM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Yet, it did not stop you from drawing the comparison, did it?

You questioned why "the left" is concerned about terrorists threatening to buy firearms for use in terror attacks, but not about terrorists threatening to enter the country as refugees.

And I explained to you that there is a 24-month long vetting process to enter the country as a refugee, but one can purchase a firearm without so much as background check.

There is a system in place to stop one threat, but not the other. That is why.


"You can go down to a gun show at the local convention center and come away with a fully-automatic assault rifle, without a background check, and most likely without having to show an identification card. So what are you waiting for?"

You realize this is not true, correct? Who knew an al Qaeda spokesperson would be wrong?


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Old Post Jan 1st, 2018 10:27 PM
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Adam_PoE
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
I do hope it was just Adam making the retarded claim. It is alarming if this "expert" thinks this is possible.


Speaking of retards, it is alarming you think our nation's lead counterterrorism expert, whose job is to protect us from national security threats, knows less about the subject than a YouTuber.


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Old Post Jan 1st, 2018 10:29 PM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Speaking of retards, it is alarming you think our nation's lead counterterrorism expert, whose job is to protect us from national security threats, knows less about the subject than a YouTuber.


So just to be clear again, you know the shit you posted was false, correct? At least the bit I highlighted. It was nowhere near being correct.


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Old Post Jan 1st, 2018 10:30 PM
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Adam_PoE
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
So just to be clear again, you know the shit you posted was false, correct? At least the bit I highlighted.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by lazybones
Uh, no. You've misunderstood what the expert said and have went off in a tangent posting statistics that have little bearing on what was claimed. What the expert said was that America's lax gun laws allow extremists to more easily purchase lethal weapons, and we have more than one example of terrorist groups encouraging their members to take advantage of America's gun laws.

. . . He simply cited America's current regulations as a potential danger as they could be exploited by extremists. That's his job as a counter terrorism expert, to pre-empt the actions of terrorists and identify vulnerabilities. Relative to other countries, purchasing guns in America is very easy, so that will be a tempting target for terrorists and is a totally fair thing to draw attention to.


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Old Post Jan 1st, 2018 10:31 PM
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Surtur
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Once again, this:

"You can go down to a gun show at the local convention center and come away with a fully-automatic assault rifle, without a background check, and most likely without having to show an identification card. So what are you waiting for?"

That is not true. Do you acknowledge this?


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Old Post Jan 1st, 2018 10:33 PM
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DarthSkywalker0
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Adam_PoE


In regards to the second quote you posted, that was already countered.

Old Post Jan 1st, 2018 11:38 PM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
In regards to the second quote you posted, that was already countered.


I am personally going to email the head of Al Queda for spreading misinformation. Yes they deserve to die and I hope burn in hell. Hellllll!


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Old Post Jan 1st, 2018 11:44 PM
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DarthSkywalker0
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
I am personally going to email the head of Al Queda for spreading misinformation. Yes they deserve to die and I hope burn in hell. Hellllll!



I love all of the myths about gun control...

Old Post Jan 1st, 2018 11:45 PM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
I love all of the myths about gun control...


It's just alarming because some of the people who know nothing about it are the ones who have millions of people listening to them. People probably believed what people like Jimmy Kimmel say.


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Old Post Jan 1st, 2018 11:49 PM
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dadudemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
It's just alarming because some of the people who know nothing about it are the ones who have millions of people listening to them. People probably believed what people like Jimmy Kimmel say.


Where these things come from is the media sensationalizing and fear-mongering the shit out of people when it comes to "mass shootings."


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Old Post Jan 1st, 2018 11:50 PM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
Where these things come from is the media sensationalizing and fear-mongering the shit out of people when it comes to "mass shootings."


And they never mention context lol. Going by population percentage, you could argue it is not whites who commit the most mass shootings. These are "racist" facts. Like these facts attended KKK meetings.


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Old Post Jan 1st, 2018 11:52 PM
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DarthSkywalker0
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
Where these things come from is the media sensationalizing and fear-mongering the shit out of people when it comes to "mass shootings."


I love the fact that mass shootings make up less than 1% of firearm homicides.

Old Post Jan 1st, 2018 11:54 PM
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Silent Master
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Speaking of retards, it is alarming you think our nation's lead counterterrorism expert, whose job is to protect us from national security threats, knows less about the subject than a YouTuber.


Provide proof that this "counterterrorism expert" was right about being able to buy fully automatic rifles without a background check.


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Old Post Jan 2nd, 2018 02:35 AM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Silent Master
Provide proof that this "counterterrorism expert" was right about being able to buy fully automatic rifles without a background check.


Indeed, I'm still waiting on that too.

Adam, where the proof?


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Old Post Jan 2nd, 2018 12:19 PM
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snowdragon
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I haven't seen proof of fully automatic guns being purchased.

Old Post Jan 2nd, 2018 03:48 PM
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Surtur
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Still curious about that proof...


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Old Post Jan 3rd, 2018 05:50 PM
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Robtard
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Speaking of retards, it is alarming you think our nation's lead counterterrorism expert, whose job is to protect us from national security threats, knows less about the subject than a YouTuber.


TBF, whatever youtuber probably has a lot more followers than our top government counter-terrorism expert. Things that matter.


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Old Post Jan 3rd, 2018 05:56 PM
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Adam_PoE
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
TBF, whatever youtuber probably has a lot more followers than our top government counter-terrorism expert. Things that matter.


Retards gonna retard. Still demanding proof of a claim I did not make, and is not central to my argument in any way. But they think they have a "gotcha" because I either defend a terrorist, or our nation's lead counterterrorism expert is wrong. Sorry, but one has nothing to do with the other. Nicholas Rasmussen is not wrong if Adam Gadahn is wrong. I am deferring to the expert opinion of the National Counterterrorism Center Director, so I do not know why I am being asked to defend the opinion of the spokesperson of al Qaeda. It is like they do not even logic.


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Old Post Jan 3rd, 2018 06:38 PM
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