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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Star Wars Versus Forum » ROTJ Luke Skywalker vs. Count Dooku


ROTJ Luke Skywalker vs. Count Dooku
Started by: Rebel95

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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
Location:


 

doesn't canon have luke >/= vader? Did I miss something?

Old Post Apr 18th, 2018 05:27 AM
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Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

Does it? I'm just thinking back to Filoni's comments and that absurd H2H book putting Kylo above Luke.

Issue with Canon is that there's no concrete and consistent power ranking at all. It's really just left up to us.

Was Vader weakened by his love for Luke? I dunno.


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Old Post Apr 18th, 2018 05:30 AM
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MythLord
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Registered: Feb 2015
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
that absurd H2H book putting Kylo above Luke.

Eh? Wut?


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Old Post Apr 18th, 2018 05:51 AM
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Darth Thor
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Asgard


 

Well Filoni certainly has a ranking, as he has made clear on multiple occasions inside and outside of Canon.

Luke is shit tier to him. So Lord help Luke if Filonis next animation includes him.

Old Post Apr 18th, 2018 07:48 AM
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Galan007
|Quantum Observer|

Registered: Jul 2006
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by MythLord
Eh? Wut?
He's talking about the Head-to-Head books(published by Scholastic.) They essentially create 'what-if' scenarios that pit different characters against one another, and also give their respective physical stats.

Some examples:
Sidious vs. Grievous
Yoda vs. Vader
Han vs. Jango
MagnaGuard vs. Royal Guard
etc. etc. etc.

The instance DarthAnt is citing is from the TFA: Head-to-Head book. Luke is pitted against Kylo in a theoretical battle. Kylo wins according to the book.


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Last edited by Galan007 on Apr 18th, 2018 at 03:47 PM

Old Post Apr 18th, 2018 03:45 PM
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Darth Thor
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Asgard


 

Which is clearly bogus.

Old Post Apr 18th, 2018 04:34 PM
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Kurk
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Canon is bogus and more inconsistent than my golf 3-wood shots.


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Old Post Apr 18th, 2018 06:03 PM
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Underachiever59
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Registered: Oct 2017
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Kurk
Canon is bogus and more inconsistent than my golf 3-wood shots.


Yes, because Legends was sooo consistent, and never contradicted itself.

The only clear inconsistency in Canon that I've seen was in Darth Vader (2017) #13, and as soon as the mistake was noticed, the digital releases were fixed within a week.

Old Post Apr 18th, 2018 07:39 PM
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Kurk
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My point is, legends depended far more on the technical aspects of characters, weapons, etc while this new canon just kinda makes things flex around what the plot demands without too much consideration for "Does this make sense?".


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Old Post Apr 18th, 2018 09:45 PM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

Registered: Dec 2016
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Does it? I'm just thinking back to Filoni's comments and that absurd H2H book putting Kylo above Luke.

Issue with Canon is that there's no concrete and consistent power ranking at all. It's really just left up to us.

Was Vader weakened by his love for Luke? I dunno.

Well, Hildago does imply Vader wasn't fully commited to the darkside vs Luke in his oft misinterpreted comments regarding Vader's prime.

It's plausible for someone with Luke+ potential to surpass vader after a decade of training, but then Snoke seems to imply TLJ Ren is sub Vader at the beginning of TLJ.

That said, these books are proving to be increasingly dubious regarding canon:
-> Vader> Sidious?
-> TPM Maul> Dooku?
-> Saying Maul "easily drove Grievous back" when he just tk'd him off a platform?

Canon overall just isn't very consistent despite throwing out all the old lore for the purpose of making everything consistent.

Last edited by Rockydonovang on Apr 22nd, 2018 at 12:29 AM

Old Post Apr 22nd, 2018 12:26 AM
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Darth Thor
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Asgard


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang

-> Saying Maul "easily drove Grievous back" when he just tk'd him off a platform?



Wheres that stated?

Old Post Apr 22nd, 2018 01:20 AM
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Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

fact files


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Old Post Apr 22nd, 2018 01:25 AM
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Darth Thor
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Asgard


 

Cool.

Well given comic book fights are hard to accurately interpret -we never once see them actually clash Sabers in that fight- I will take the fact files word on that.

Old Post Apr 22nd, 2018 01:33 AM
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Forschbewithu
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2018
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Well, Hildago does imply Vader wasn't fully commited to the darkside vs Luke in his oft misinterpreted comments regarding Vader's prime.

It's plausible for someone with Luke+ potential to surpass vader after a decade of training, but then Snoke seems to imply TLJ Ren is sub Vader at the beginning of TLJ.

That said, these books are proving to be increasingly dubious regarding canon:
-> Vader> Sidious?
-> TPM Maul> Dooku?
-> Saying Maul "easily drove Grievous back" when he just tk'd him off a platform?

Canon overall just isn't very consistent despite throwing out all the old lore for the purpose of making everything consistent.


Damn... Is there a scan out there of the Kylo vs. Luke head to head? How do these books imply Vader > Sidious and TPM Maul > Dooku?

Old Post Apr 22nd, 2018 06:04 PM
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Zenwolf
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Kurk
My point is, legends depended far more on the technical aspects of characters, weapons, etc while this new canon just kinda makes things flex around what the plot demands without too much consideration for "Does this make sense?".


No wonder it's so wonky.


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Old Post Apr 22nd, 2018 06:13 PM
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xPRIMEx
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2018
Location:


 

It's difficult to gauge how powerful Luke is in ROTJ since Vader may or may not have been hindered during their fight. In my opinion Luke would have lost if Vader wasn't emotionally conflicted, so I don't think he would be able to defeat the Count. Good fight though.

Old Post Apr 23rd, 2018 12:33 AM
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Mendax
Hand of God

Registered: Sep 2017
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
-> Vader> Sidious?
Where was this stated?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
-> TPM Maul> Dooku?
Where was this stated?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
-> Saying Maul "easily drove Grievous back" when he just tk'd him off a platform?
But TKing GG off a platform IS driving him back. No discrepancy there.


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Old Post Apr 23rd, 2018 12:48 AM
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xPRIMEx
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Registered: Apr 2018
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There's a book (don't remember the name) that lists the top 5 red lightsaber users, that's probably what he's referring to.

Old Post Apr 23rd, 2018 12:52 AM
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Forschbewithu
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2018
Location:


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by xPRIMEx
There's a book (don't remember the name) that lists the top 5 red lightsaber users, that's probably what he's referring to.


Ah yes, that book is "Star Wars: Absolutely Everything You Need to Know"

Gave the top red lightsaber duelists:

1. Vader
2. Sidious
3. Maul
4. Dooku
5. Ventress

So it suggests Vader > Palpatine & TPM Maul > Dooku in sabers, but not all out battles... Although it would obviously play a part.

Old Post Apr 23rd, 2018 01:41 AM
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relentless1
Dark Overlord of KMC

Registered: Aug 2014
Location: Your Moms house


 

already don't buy it; hows Vader above Sidious or Maul above Dooku?? thats a shit list

Old Post Apr 23rd, 2018 03:54 AM
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