Ok, so, now that I logged out of my Darksaint account, let's do some math.
1). Time frame
Flash
0.00001 us (microseconds). That's 1 second * 10^(-11) seconds.
Superman
Let's approximate it, based on the dialogue, at 20 seconds (and for easier calculation, to make it round, as we'll split this time in two later...you'll see why).
So the timeframe in which Flash did his feat is about 2 * 10^12 times smaller.
2). Distance and speed
Flash
Total number of people = 532000
Carried "one at a time, sometimes two" for a distance of 35 miles.
Let's say he carries 1.5 people on average.
The total distance moved by Flash = 532000/1.5 (total number of people/people he carries on average) * 70 miles (there and back) = 24,826,666 miles.
Turn into kilometers, that's aprox 40,000,000 km.
He did this in 10^(-11) seconds.
That means that he travelled around 13 trillion times the speed of light.
So Flash moves at 13 * 10^12 times the speed of light.
Superman
Let's start with a few pointers:
- Total volume of the moon = 21.9 billion cubic km
- We can see (1st panel) that there's no large pieces of the moon left, until Superman starts merging the debris: https://imgur.com/a/79ksQfd
- We can see some of the chunks Superman is carying, in the same issue, like here: https://imgur.com/a/EVcHB5j
And here: https://imgur.com/a/MU0Abby https://imgur.com/a/JiUZbZ7 https://imgur.com/a/C4DvJYV
Remember: This is after he already blitzed the debris to merge it at superspeed, and it's just the finishing touches, so the original pieces very probably were very small. . But, for the sake of the argument..let's take it like that.
We can observe that some of them are fist sized, some of them are human sized, some are bigger. Now, the average human body has a volume of 95 liters. Let's say 100. That's 0.1 cubic meters. But, let's be generous. Let's make the average debris as 100 times as large as that and say it's 10 cubic meters.
So we have the moon at 21.9 billion cubic km, split into pieces of average 10 cubic meters.
21.9 * 10^9 * (m^3)^3 = 21.9 * 10^9 * 10^9 = 21.9 * 10^18 cubic meters total volume of the moon.
That means that there are 21.9 * 10^18 cubic meters (total volume) divided by 10 cubic meters (chunks volume) = 21.9 * 10^17 pieces of moon. Lets downgrade even more, and say it's 20 * 10^17 = 2 * 10^18 pieces of moon or, better said, 2 quintillion pieces.
- So we know we have 2 quintillion pieces. Now, we move on to the volume they're spreaded out. From the rebuilding scan, we can see that the diameter of the sphere in which they were thrown (i.e. omnidirectional) is approximately 2 times the diameter of the moon. That is 2*3,474 km = 6948 ~ 7000 km.
The volume of the sphere, V = 1.43675504E+21 m3 =~ 2 * 10^21 cubic meters
To make calculations possible, let's assume that the 2 * 10^ 18 pieces of debris are evenly distributes in the sphere, which would make the distance between two adjacent pieces inside it 100 meters.
Now, what other information do we have?
Superman was taking these pieces, and was grouping and fusing them, to make a bigger piece. Then he moved on to other pieces, and did the same thing.
And then he took those two bigger pieces he fused, and fused THEM together.
That's why we see different chunks, all over in space, being formed, as he fuses groups of debris together.
Let's say that Superman fuses them in groups of 100 chunks of 100 times his size each. And then he moves on to the next group, does the same. And then he fuses these two, and moves on to others, etc.
That means Superman travels, just for the first grouping of debris into groups of 100:
The distance between the chunks - i.e. in absolute total, if he were to fuse the moon in ONE go, he'd have to travel 2 quintillion (pieces) * 100 meters. That is 2 * 10^17 km. That is already a 100 billion times the speed of light, and that's if he had played "snake".
Next, he'd have to take these groups of 100, and let's say fuse them into another group of 100 (remember, each of these 100 is already 100 times larger than him).
The distance, is again, the same, since the bigger chunks would have the same overall distance between them. That is another 2*10^17 km.
And, also, remember something else - the bigger the pieces he has to fuse, the more precise, and the more time, he has to take to do the process of fusing itself.
He wants to make the Moon the EXACT same way it was.
Let's say he ALWAYS fuses pieces by grouping them into 100 (even when some of them get as big as mountains -- essentially forcing him to fuse 100 mountains in one go...then 10,000 mountains with another 10,000 mountains in one go, etc.)
That means, in order to get the FINALIZED moon, by incrementally bigger chunks, he'd have to do this trip:
The distance he has to travel each time = (2*10^17)
The number of times, in total, he has to travel it, which is 2 * 10 ^18 / 100 = 2 * 10 ^16.
So, f*cking finally, if anybody follows this, we have the final distance:
2 * 10^17 km * 2 * 10 ^16 = 4 * 10^ 33 km.
This is also assuming that all of the pieces that he has to fuse are literally one next to another, and that he doesn't have to travel in a completely different part of the sphere to get it.
Think of it like a convenient puzzle, where the pieces are split over an area, but they're in the exact same order as they were when complete.
How convenient! But let's assume it's so...
Now, we go back to the beginning of the post where we approximate this all took 20 seconds, judging by the dialogue with Batman.
How much of that time is spent FUSING, with the utmost precision to make it exactly how it was, these large pieces (remember, he does this with his hands/heat vision and whatnot), and how much time is spend travelling from one piece to the next? The reason I made it a round 20 seconds is because it's reasonable to assume it was half/half.
So he spent 10 seconds travelling 4 * 10 ^33 km. That's 4*10^32 km per second.
So Superman is, in terms of flight speed travelled, aprox 10^26 times the speed of light.
So that's 100 SEPTILION times the speed of light. Or, to put it better, it's a a 100 million billion billion times the speed of light. Or 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times the speed of light.
As far as the other 10 seconds he spend fusing? He had to do the fusing process, initially, for the first grouping, 2 quintillion times, for each of the initial pieces.
Then, he had to do it 0.02 quintillion times, for the bigger pieces, obtained by grouping the smaller ones. Then 0.0002 for...etc.
Let's approximate it at, simply, 2 quintillion times. What's a few trillion between friends?
How much, from his perspective (i.e. his '1 second passes'), do you think it took Superman for the pieces, on average? Remember, the bigger the pieces get, the more he has to fuse, the difficult it becomes. AND he has to put them EXACTLY the way they were.
Let's average of 50 seconds, from his perspective. The first ones are fast, but the later ones are slower. Remember the veritable mountains (and bigger) that I mentioned, about Superman having to fuse perfectly? Do you think it would take him 50 seconds without superspeed? Of course not. But again, let's take the minimum.
That means, that what would be 10 seconds from 'normal time' perspective, would be 50 * 2 * 10^18 from Superman's perspective. That means each second, from his perspective, would be 10^19 seconds.
To put this into a context that can be easier grasped, from Superman's perception level, inside a single second, he lives the entire age of the Universe, ten times over.
You can adjust any number, but this is the ballpark, folks.
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Last edited by Philosophía on Oct 4th, 2018 at 06:22 PM
The Moon rebuilding was also a nice STRENGTH feat for Superman. Let us estimate the strength required according to Newton's 2nd law F = ma (I'll be using the metric units).
According to Phil's post,
1) Superman's average speed was v = 4*10^35 m/s
2) the average volume of the Moon chunks was V = 10 m^3
3) the average distance a Moon chunk had to be moved was d = 100 m.
Now, the average density of the Moon is approx. 3000 kg/m^3 so that the mass of a single Moon chunk was approx. m = 3*10^4 kg.
A given piece of Moon chunk started at rest, then got moved the distance d by Superman, then ended up at rest. This means that Superman had to first ACCELERATE the piece for 50 meters, then DECELERATE it for the next 50 meters. In order to maintain his average speed v, he thus had to accelerate from 0 to 2v during the first 50 meters, then decelerate from 2v to 0 during the latter 50 meters. The uniform acceleration required was thus a = 4v^2/d (this formula has been derived in Wikipedia, for example). Here, v and d are known from Phil's post, yielding an acceleration a = 6.4*10^69 m/s^2.
Newton's 2nd law now tells us that the average force applied by Superman was
F = ma = 2*10^74 N
, where N = Newton. We know that lifting 1 kg on Earth requires 10 N, so this is equivalent to Superman lifting 2*10^73 kg. This may be compared to the total mass of our visible Universe of 3.4*10^54 kg.
Therefore, the strength applied by Superman was equivalent to Superman lifting 6*10^18 Universes, or 6 quintillion i.e. 6 billion billion Universes for 20 seconds (or so) straight.
Both are crazy. The part that impressed me the most is the rebuilding of the topography of the moon. It’s an exact replica. It’s PC level in stupidity.
It's not about memory. It simply isn't doable physically outside of magic. Did he rebuild the Apollo landing site, including Armstrong's foot print as well?
The landing site, including Armstrong's foot print, are not magical. They were originally produced by ordinary physical means, meaning that Superman can reproduce them via purely physical means if he is Super enough -- and he is.
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Oct 4th, 2018 06:01 PM
