Wolverine vs. Spider-Man

Originally posted by sCOURGE_0
So...if Wolverine took a hit from the Hulk like WWH..and his inners get liquified..I get that it wouldn't kill him and that he'd regenerate but shouldn't that at least KO'd him for a bit? I read Suicide King's when Punisher shot Deadpool's head off and it took him some time to regrow it, unless Wolverine's HF is faster than DP's. It's just a bit hard to imagine that Wolverine's brain would turn to mush, and that' he'd stay consiouss long enough for it to grow back and continue fighting...

In order to ko Wolverine you need to push his healing factor into a point of diminishing returns when he can no longer heal the damage as fast as it's being dished out (essentially what WWH did).

In the first issue of Suicide Kings, Punisher shoots Deadpool point blank in the face and it doesn't even make him miss a step. I guess Deadpool has more trouble regrowing bone then he does organs... which isn't a problem Wolverine needs to worry about given his Adamantium skeleton. Deadpool's healing factor is supposed to be faster than Wolverine's, but Logan has better feats. /shrug

Alright, makes sense

My point, is that if he can heal liquefied organs in a second, then all the times he's actually been shown as injured are PIS, as the wounds should have healed before they became visible.

Full Capacity

It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed. It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.

All this shit is painstakingly laid out by our lovely mods in the rules section. READ THE FORUM RULES.

Healing isn't the same as using superspeed, healing is something that is always active, so if healing from total organ liquefaction in a second is his average, that means that you’re claiming that the hundreds of examples of him being visibly injured are massive PIS.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Hey jinzin. Nice to see you dropping by.

Agreed with your post. And it should be mentioned that Yost's Wolverine has been flash ko'd by bullets bouncing off his skull.

Have you seen Logan's fight with Maestro? Slamming to the ground didn't stun him even for a moment 😉

And yet, Srank claims Wolvies fight with Mr. X is invalidated because of being softened up by his thugs before hand.

Wolverine fans want to have it both ways. If you want to keep insisting Wolverine's healing factor is so amazing, then we get to claim extenuating circumstances like Wolverine being softened up by Mr. X's goons aren't even worth mentioning.

(PR, that's why I left out those "extenuating circumstances", even though I wasn't planning on turning that scan into "a thing".. But this is something that's bugged me about Wolverine fans for awhile now. Somehow, his high end feats are supposed to be accepted as his "average" feats..)

Yea, I learned that early on. It was funny how Wolverine's best feats were allowed, but using Thor's best was me being a fanboy. And god forbid you pointed out a less than favorable Wolverine showing.

Wolverine fans are the worst, we just need to accept them for who they are.

Spiderman 10/10.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
GSP isn't a knock out artist in the ring, but that is because of his style not his lack of ability. He is always moving, cutting angles, staying on the outside with his jabs and rarely plants his feat and throws bombs. In a test he can plant his feat and throw leather like he means it, something he doesn't do often in the octagon. I don't remember where the test was from but it had GSP's punch at like 2800 or there around. That being said Ivan Drago's punch had a [b]PSI of 2150. That's not even remotely the same figure we are dealing with from GSP. GSP's stat is the total force of his punch Drago's was the force per square inch... equalized Drago's punch would have been close something like 9000lbs.

I didn't say "strength amounts to next to nothing," I said "strength amounts to next to nothing... relative to skill and technique," the important part being the "relative to skill and technique," part.

Let's look at weight lifting and how it relates to speed. Sure weight training increases fast twitch muscle fiber which is beneficial, but we aren't talking about weight training, we are talking about "power lifting." At the level we are referring too any net speed increase gained from the lifting is completely overshadowed by the muscle mass needed to lift the weight. If you step into any boxing gym the trainer will tell you that power lifting is counter productive to what you want to achieve. You want to increase your hand speed? A boxing trainer will send you to the double-end bag and the speed bag, and make you jump rope and shadow box. He isn't going to send you to the gym to bench press your 1rm. Weight lifting is fine, and certainly of benefit to a boxer (particularly squats) but high weight, low rep power lifting to build strength and add mass is a bad idea.

I don't know shit about Tigers or Lions (fighting about animals was Dumb Dumb thing), but a quick google search tells me the swing their paws with the force of 500-600lbs. Is that accurate? Hell if I know, it's from dubious internet "animal experts," but that isn't particularly powerful... in fact its down right impotent compared to the force that some fighters can generate. Then again it's not the force of the Tiger's paws that do the damage it's claws... and the mouth is no picnic either. Skill my friend. Trained fighters know how to use their entire bodies to get their full body into their punches, a tiger does not. /shrug

Force is not force. There are many different kinds of force. Power lifting and punching are not remotely the same thing. Power lifting is a pushing action. If you stand in front of someone and punch them from your shoulder... well it's not going to do shit no matter how much you can bench. The power from a punch primarily comes from the legs and the hips, and it's the skill if knowing how to string the entire thing together that makes a power puncher. How strong you are is largely irrelevant.

Spider-man's strength advantage does not go "goes FAR beyond the human range gap." Spider-man is in between class 10 - 20. Wolverine is in between class 2 - 5. I guess if we look at Wolverine at his very weakest and Spider-man at his absolute peak there would be a 10x difference in the strength of the two characters, but that be about as accurate as looking at Wolverine at his absolute strongest and Spider-man at his weakest when there would only be a 2x difference between the two. Spider-man is around 4 - 5 stronger than Wolverine, which isn't outside to realm of a "human range gap." You know what would happen if the man with the leg press record let a 100lbs female BJJ sink in a knee bar? He'd tap out or his leg would get broken. The strength difference between Spider-man and Wolverine is not so great that it is insurmountable, even in the real world where fighting skill is much more reasonable then it is in comics. [/B]

I'm calling BS

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2948/is-it-possible-to-land-a-punch-at-2-000-pounds-per-square-inch

Spiderman should win this for the majority too fast, too quick, too athletic, too acrobatic and too strong. He could technically web him up and use him as a punching bag.

Originally posted by cdtm
And yet, Srank claims Wolvies fight with Mr. X is invalidated because of being softened up by his thugs before hand.

Wolverine fans want to have it both ways. If you want to keep insisting Wolverine's healing factor is so amazing, then we get to claim extenuating circumstances like Wolverine being softened up by Mr. X's goons aren't even worth mentioning.

(PR, that's why I left out those "extenuating circumstances", even though I wasn't planning on turning that scan into "a thing".. But this is something that's bugged me about Wolverine fans for awhile now. Somehow, his high end feats are supposed to be accepted as his "average" feats..)

I'm fairly certain that you are confusing me with Jinzin or Dumb Dumb (or flat up making something up), but for the sake of indulging you I'll point out that one of Mr. X's "goons" was Ogun, who is super humanly skilled and even able to effect Colossus with pressure points. That said Mr. X beat Wolverine via the Worf effect to cement himself as a threat without the author laying any ground work. It was complete PIS.

Wolverine's high feats aren't supposed to be accepted as his "average" feats, his average feats are supposed to be accepted as his average feats, which is a courteous schmucks like you don't seem to want to afford the character. You want to low ball Wolverine and cherry pick one in a hundred low end examples and pretend like the mean some thing (case in point: the Mr. X incident you just cited).

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yea, I learned that early on. It was funny how Wolverine's best feats were allowed, but using Thor's best was me being a fanboy. And god forbid you pointed out a less than favorable Wolverine showing.

When you go into any Thor thread and the Thor people are trying to pass off as the default incarnation is the version who got koed by artillery fire and the falling mast of a ship, then you can started bitching. Until that happens you are in a far better place with Thor than anyone is with Wolverine, where the incompetent mods sit back and let ignorant posters low ball the character all day long.

Originally posted by Tony Stark
I'm calling BS

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2948/is-it-possible-to-land-a-punch-at-2-000-pounds-per-square-inch

Spiderman should win this for the majority too fast, too quick, too athletic, too acrobatic and too strong. He could technically web him up and use him as a punching bag.

I'm curious, how do you feel that a link that - quite literally - that reaffirms everything I just said somehow supports you calling BS on my post? Seriously, fail bro.

Spider-man's strength advantage is inconsequential. His speed advantage is so slight that it is barely worth mentioning. Any and all physically altercations between the two will end with Wolverine winning. 10/10. Spider-man could and would web him up though, as I've always asserted.

Spider-man wins. Direct encounters are what matter the most. Also LOL at trying to invalidate the ASM fight as always by wolverine fans aka anything and everything below hulk level knocking out wolverine is PIS and can't be used against him. He lost fair and square, accept it and move on. Its not like its the most embarrassing loss or ko he ever had, brass-knuckle wearing jocks have done worse than this to him.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Spider-man wins. Direct encounters are what matter the most. Also LOL at trying to invalidate the ASM fight as always by wolverine fans aka anything and everything below hulk level knocking out wolverine is PIS and can't be used against him. He lost fair and square, accept it and move on. Its not like its the most embarrassing loss or ko he ever had, brass-knuckle wearing jocks have done worse than this to him.

facepalm

Wolverine being knocked by anything less than Hulk is PIS. Here's a hint, if something is contradicted by feats by a factor greater than 10... it's probably an example of PIS. Do you need to me to help you with anything else?

Spider-man koing Wolverine is about as valid as Superman being ko'd by power lines. Are we playing that game now? Let me know if we are being low balling d-bags, because I can come to the Superman threads anytime and post PIS. 😎

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine being knocked by anything less than Hulk [b]is PIS. [/B]

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
facepalm

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
facepalm

Wolverine being knocked by anything less than Hulk [b]is PIS. Here's a hint, if something is contradicted by feats by a factor greater than 10... it's probably an example of PIS. Do you need to me to help you with anything else?

Spider-man koing Wolverine is about as valid as Superman being ko'd by power lines. Are we playing that game now? Let me know if we are being low balling d-bags, because I can come to the Superman threads anytime and post PIS. 😎 [/B]

Yeah, the same methodology. Never change srank, you are always good for a laugh. Because a few fights with hulk outweigh literally hundreds of other instances where he gets knocked out by far less. Namor has fought hulk nearly three dozen times and has never been knocked out and has actually koed hulk twice which is more than what thor can claim, but in direct encounters thor always dominates namor. Here's a hint, comic characters are in-consistent.

Go on and post the scan, its either kryptonite or some other context would be behind that. Its not like he got koed by a motorcycle crash or something.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, the same methodology. Never change srank, you are always good for a laugh. Because a few fights with hulk outweigh literally hundreds of other instances where he gets knocked out by far less. Namor has fought hulk nearly three dozen times and has never been knocked out and has actually koed hulk twice which is more than what thor can claim, but in direct encounters thor always dominates namor. Here's a hint, comic characters are in-consistent.

Go on and post the scan, its either kryptonite or some other context would be behind that. Its not like he got koed by a motorcycle crash or something.

Wolverine hasn't been knocked out 100 times in his whole career, never mind 100 times by "far less." Wolverine fights class 100 bricks. Routinely. For every single example of him being koed by anything there are 10 (conservatively) of him shrugging of blows from the best Marvel has to offer. Wolverine getting ko'd by Spider-man in an extreme outlier, as such it's PIS. The number of times Wolverine has been koed by "far less then class 100" (or at all for that) is minuscule compared to the times he has tanked blows from Marvel's top bricks.

Not sure what ABC logic comparing how different character's match up with similar foes has to do with establishing a base line for Wolverine's healing factor... but nice work?

Gross I don't have scans of Superman on my computer. Don't insult me like that! 😎

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine hasn't been knocked out 100 times in his whole career, never mind 100 times by "far less." Wolverine fights class 100 bricks. Routinely. For every single example of him being koed by anything there are 10 (conservatively) of him shrugging of blows from the best Marvel has to offer. Wolverine getting ko'd by Spider-man in an extreme outlier, as such it's PIS. The number of times Wolverine has been koed by "far less then class 100" (or at all for that) is minuscule compared to the times he has tanked blows from Marvel's top bricks.

Not sure what ABC logic comparing how different character's match up with similar foes has to do with establishing a base line for Wolverine's healing factor... but nice work?

Gross I don't have scans of Superman on my computer. Don't insult me like that! 😎

Yeah, you like wolverine. There can be no bigger insult.

This thread...

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah same old, same old. You should just copy and paste your old posts at this point.

Yeah, you like wolverine. There can be no bigger insult.

Some old rebuttal to counter the same old argument, the different between to two of us is that I'm right. This isn't even a two sided argument, I've presented facts... and you've done nothing except for suggest that Spider-man koing Wolverine should be considered valid for some reason even though it is clearly inconstant with the level he normally operates on.

I could like Superman *shutter*, luckily I have literary standards so that's not much of a problem. Let me know if the someone on the bumbling writing staff on Superman takes a writing class at a community center and finally learns about pathos or how to write a compelling character. 😎