Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I think FF 374... but I'm not sureYou sure like to say that a lot don't you? How do you explain the rest of Wolverine's comic career? You know... everything BEFORE the 90's?
Read Uncanny X-men #96, I mean even in the 70's he took a full strength hit from Colossus with out even stunned, and then he goes on the beat the crap out of Kierrok the Damned. He was even taking beatings from Weapon Alpha (aka Guardian aka Vindicator), who was supposed to be the equal of any Avenger when he first appeared.
Namor ko'ed hulk in a goddamned punch, but can't take out wolverine or send him flying in two?
Wonder why?
Popularity or the guys will stop buying the comics.
Namor comics and SS are not in sale anymore, but the xmen keep getting power boosts.
Originally posted by Srankmissingnin
Namor ko'ed hulk in a goddamned punch, but can't take out wolverine or send him flying in two?Wonder why?
Popularity or the guys will stop buying the comics.
Namor comics and SS are not in sale anymore, but the xmen keep getting power boosts.
How is Namor knocking Hulk out with one punch?
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Namor ko'ed hulk in a goddamned punch, but can't take out wolverine or send him flying in two?Wonder why?
Popularity or the guys will stop buying the comics.
Namor comics and SS are not in sale anymore, but the xmen keep getting power boosts.
Once again... how do you explain the rest of Wolverine's career? He has only popular since the earliy 90's but that never stopped him from doing comparable feats in the 70's and up through the 80's. No offence but it just sound like a cop out because you don't really have a real argument.
And Namor really isn't to high on the power scale out of the water, the Thing as slugged it out with him a few times and held his own.
Originally posted by srankmissingninHow is it a copout, its quite obvious, EVERYONE seems to understand this.
Once again... how do you explain the rest of Wolverine's career? He has only popular since the earliy 90's but that never stopped him from doing comparable feats in the 70's and up through the 80's. No offence but it just sound like a cop out because you don't really have a real argument.And Namor really isn't to high on the power scale out of the water, the Thing as slugged it out with him a few times and held his own.
Wolverine did WAY less well against namor the first time, and now he didn't, he won without even falling without a punch.
You gotta be kidding, Namor is one of the most underrated, wolverine is one of the most overrated.
Sales are priority, like it or not. Wolverine hasn't gotten any upgrades, and there is no reason he shouldn't be knocked out, save the fact it keeps the comic interesting, I don't understand why wolverine supporters don't get this fact.
Wolveirne is horribly inconsistant, and is made to look good to sale comics and wins against people he really shouldn't, a little logic would dictate otherwise.
Same thing with batman.
I posted a huge argument, and got no counter, so yea.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Once again... how do you explain the rest of Wolverine's career? He has only popular since the earliy 90's but that never stopped him from doing comparable feats in the 70's and up through the 80's. No offence but it just sound like a cop out because you don't really have a real argument.And Namor really isn't to high on the power scale out of the water, the Thing as slugged it out with him a few times and held his own.
hahahahhaahhaha, "the new sheriff" is a cop out. You made a funny.
And more importantly your right. Does anyone have pics of Wolvie's first appearance?
Originally posted by MERCILOUSnutswinging again I see.
hahahahhaahhaha, "the new sheriff" is a cop out. You made a funny.And more importantly your right. Does anyone have pics of Wolvie's first appearance?
I noticed he didn't break my argument in the least, but hey keep trying.
Not that you contribute anything anyway.
Originally posted by jinzinWhat does wendigo have to do with any of this?
I'll actually have those up by the end of the weekend...hopefully..😮just to show how "horrible" wolverine did against..hulk.....AND wendigo! 🙄
Only fanboys think he is beating the hulk anyways...
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
How is it a copout, its quite obvious, EVERYONE seems to understand this.Wolverine did WAY less well against namor the first time, and now he didn't, he won without even falling without a punch.
You gotta be kidding, Namor is one of the most underrated, wolverine is one of the most overrated.
Sales are priority, like it or not. Wolverine hasn't gotten any upgrades, and there is no reason he shouldn't be knocked out, save the fact it keeps the comic interesting, I don't understand why wolverine supporters don't get this fact.
Wolveirne is horribly inconsistant, and is made to look good to sale comics and wins against people he really shouldn't, a little logic would dictate otherwise.Same thing with batman.
I posted a huge argument, and got no counter, so yea.
It is 100% a cop out man.
So... what your saying is because we have two fights concerning the same characters that didn't play out the exact same way that it must because of popularity. Thats a load of crap man, seriously not every fight can turn out the exact same way there are many circumstances to take into account (hint: look at the two Wolverine/Namor fights to see what I am talking about). I like you C-M and to be honest the "Wolverine wins because of popularity," comments are really pretty far below you.
Seriously man Wolverine has been fighting and beating the same guys for going on 30 years. You don't like it (not sure why it irks you so) but it is a stretch to say that "*grumble* *grumble* Wolverine only beat 'x' because he was a more popular character," when you can look back over his history and see has been doing the same thing almost since he was originated (or since it was established that he had a healing factor)
If marvel was as concerned with poplarity as you like to believe, then Wolverine would have never been able to hold his own (and even come out on top) in skermishes with the character that has been Marvel's #1 cash cow since he was created... and makes up %40 of their monthly titles. Its a cop out man, pure and simple.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
So... what your saying is because we have two fights concerning the same characters that didn't play out the exact same way that it must because of popularity. Thats a load of crap man, seriously not every fight can turn out the exact same way there are many circumstances to take into account (hint: look at the two Wolverine/Namor fights to see what I am talking about). I like you C-M and to be honest the "Wolverine wins because of popularity," comments are really pretty far below you.
Not even close to what I'm saying and you know it.
Wolverine has gone up and down in his many, many showings, I don't know why you think popularity doesn't play a role in the characters is just sheer bs.
You seem to think that the majority of comics are potrayed to the people that know and read them into a debate. To be truthful, most people think spidemran is a guy with webbing, and wolverine is a guy with claws.
Circumstances? Only proves my point even more. The fact that people go around and mention these matches without saying these "circumstances", is just disgusting.
No logic is used whatsoever, and characters NEED to make money.
Its absurd and you know it, popularity VERY well play a role in what characters come and go, and how they perform, if a character isn't within that regime of sales, then they aren't considered.
Also note wolverine did SIGNIFICANTLY less well against namor, who is sorely underrated, and not as popular. Namor, a guy that ko's people like hulk in a damned punch, but couldn't keep wolverine down. Next DAREDEVIL keeps him down with a chop to the throat.
Na ah.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Seriously man Wolverine has been fighting and beating the same guys for going on 30 years. You don't like it (not sure why it irks you so) but it is a stretch to say that "*grumble* *grumble* Wolverine only beat 'x' because he was a more popular character," when you can look back over his history and see has been doing the same thing almost since he was originated (or since it was established that he had a healing factor)
Fine show me where wolverine has CONSISTENTLY pulled of victories against the same ol' heavy hitters, show me where this is.
Tell me you don't know the difference between when a character is introduced to look good, and when they are merely there to be a punching bag.
Wolverine is the most inconsistant character ever, period. The xmen characters have been plagued with second mutations and such to the point where people don't even use logic anymore.
People think wolverine is now on hulk and godzilla level,and able to take on 5 elder predators?
Na uh.
I like you too, don't get me wrong either, trust me...
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
If marvel was as concerned with poplarity as you like to believe, then Wolverine would have never been able to hold his own (and even come out on top) in skermishes with the character that has been Marvel's #1 cash cow since he was created... and makes up %40 of their monthly titles. Its a cop out man, pure and simple.
Yea, first of all its a damned crossover match, pure and simple.
wolverine vs lobo, venom vs juggernaut, batman vs hulk, need I go on.
Why did venom do sooooo well against juggernaut? Because the fans didn't want to see him lose too badly?
Superman losing against thor, bull.
How about when DD beat sabretooth, or catwoman?
hmmm?
Just like wrestling comics are there to give people what they want, and aren't FOR a hypothetical debate.
A discussion on this is fine, and I'm not here for a discussion on marvel's future, I do hope one day that they DO improve their comics.
Crossovers are MEANT to end in a question mark plain and simple, and are hardly to be used as evidence alone.
Wolverine can hold his own against spiderman, I fully agree, but consistently?
Lets see wolverine has done rather poorly against spiderman, but fanboys are there so it has to be a draw.
How come when characters take on multiple foes ((DS vs JLA), that they get plauged with stupidity?
Where is spiderman's spider sense during these matchups?
There needs to be logical parameters within debating, whether you guys like it or NOT. I don't know how to break it to you, but thats just the way it goes.
Most of the wolverine supports have been "wolverine beat xxxx", so this isn't what HAS happened, its what CAN happen, thats the difference. This isn't within the pages of a comic book. If it were then why would we be here then?
As for cop out, please. I've been here arguing on these threads more persistently and consistently than ANY other member bar NONE. I say it I mean it, and I back up EVERY DAMNED WORD.
Dismiss anything, I need no cop out, as 90% of objective readers agree, plain and simple. Its no different than batman, wolverine is inconsistant and overexposed and overrated.
What that has to do with a discussion on comics,plenty, save that for comic movies.
What that has to do with a comic hypothetical DEBATE? Nothing much at all.
Thats the difference... 😮💨
First it needs to be mentioned that a) cross company cross overs and cross title cross overs (with in the same company) are two totally different ball games b) Superman beat Thor in the cross over and c) Superman beating Thor is bs (not the other way around as you listed)
Not even close to what I'm saying and you know it.
Wolverine has gone up and down in his many, many showings, I don't know why you think popularity doesn't play a role in the characters is just sheer bs.You seem to think that the majority of comics are potrayed to the people that know and read them into a debate. To be truthful, most people think spidemran is a guy with webbing, and wolverine is a guy with claws.
Circumstances? Only proves my point even more. The fact that people go around and mention these matches without saying these "circumstances", is just disgusting.
No logic is used whatsoever, and characters NEED to make money.
Its absurd and you know it, popularity VERY well play a role in what characters come and go, and how they perform, if a character isn't within that regime of sales, then they aren't considered.
Also note wolverine did SIGNIFICANTLY less well against namor, who is sorely underrated, and not as popular. Namor, a guy that ko's people like hulk in a damned punch, but couldn't keep wolverine down. Next DAREDEVIL keeps him down with a chop to the throat.
Na ah.
Okay. Does popluarlity play a role in the out come of a fight? Sure it does, but there are other factors that play much larger roles in determining a victor... like say is one of the characters the title character of the comic the fight takes place in? Popularity doesn't so much decided the outt come of a fight as it does the reason the fight takes place in a first place.
Here's what gets me, you have know problem with saying "oh, well Wolverine held his own against Hulk / Wendigo / Rhino / Namor / Wonderman / Abomination / Sasquatch / Roughhouse because of his popularity and nothing else," and totally ignore everything he did before the 90s came around. Wolverine was taking hits from class 100s and getting back up long before he became the "it"... why doesn't this matter to you? Wolverine wasn't all ways popular so how was he managing to do the same things before his rise to fame?
I'd respond to the rest... but I'm kind of tired and it just seems like senseless rambling right now.
Okay. Does popluarlity play a role in the out come of a fight? Sure it does, but there are other factors that play much larger roles in determining a victor... like say is one of the characters the title character of the comic the fight takes place in? Popularity doesn't so much decided the outt come of a fight as it does the reason the fight takes place in a first place.
Here's what gets me, you have know problem with saying "oh, well Wolverine held his own against Hulk / Wendigo / Rhino / Namor / Wonderman / Abomination / Sasquatch / Roughhouse because of his popularity and nothing else," and totally ignore everything he did before the 90s came around. Wolverine was taking hits from class 100s and getting back up long before he became the "it"... why doesn't this matter to you? Wolverine wasn't all ways popular so how was he managing to do the same things before his rise to fame?
I'd respond to the rest... but I'm kind of tired and it just seems like senseless rambling right now.
Your so right 🙂
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
First it needs to be mentioned that a) cross company cross overs and cross title cross overs (with in the same company) are two totally different ball games b) Superman beat Thor in the cross over and c) Superman beating Thor is bs (not the other way around as you listed)Okay. Does popluarlity play a role in the out come of a fight? Sure it does, but there are other factors that play much larger roles in determining a victor... like say is one of the characters the title character of the comic the fight takes place in? Popularity doesn't so much decided the outt come of a fight as it does the reason the fight takes place in a first place.
Here's what gets me, you have know problem with saying "oh, well Wolverine held his own against Hulk / Wendigo / Rhino / Namor / Wonderman / Abomination / Sasquatch / Roughhouse because of his popularity and nothing else," and totally ignore everything he did before the 90s came around. Wolverine was taking hits from class 100s and getting back up long before he became the "it"... why doesn't this matter to you? Wolverine wasn't all ways popular so how was he managing to do the same things before his rise to fame?
I'd respond to the rest... but I'm kind of tired and it just seems like senseless rambling right now.
Sorry, I didn't mean JUST because of his popularity, let me just say this...
When he fights guys like hulk and such, who he shouldn't his popularity is what keeps him from losing sorely.
Think about it, I think wolverine is more suitable to fight the listed people than spiderman in most cases.
Those are wolveirne's foes and he will be taken up and down by them regurlarly.
Not trying to sound harsh here, but i'm saying in a debate, thats all that keeps him alive. You can't gauge those punches.
I got hit by a class 100 and got up, can I say "I survived that hit", no not really. He was hitting them with lighter force.
Like batman and superman hitting bats with an angry punch and superman getting RIGHT back up.
I know that batman has beaten superman in the book, but in this debating area, no, because he isn't getting close to batman. Supes knows batman knows his weakness.
Thats what I'm saying, logic.
As far as marvel,wolverine is in basically EVERY x title, that makes around 7 or 8 at one time.
And the movies, well lets not go there, popularity DOES play a role...