Originally posted by Melnorme
Which is in itself a false dilemma. But we don't have to get into the technicalities of it. Anyone with eyes can see that your logic is flawed, and your pretense of using proper terminology like "ad populem" (sic) is proof positive of this.
you're deviating again.. you strawmanned get over it...
Originally posted by Melnorme
I'm not even sure what you're ranting about here..
too bad I don'thave any crayons on hand...
Originally posted by Melnorme
Your position was that my argument was a straw man, and I asked what you were talking about. How am I contorting anything?
that's what my position EVOLVED into...
you're strawmanning right now.. avoiding the first position entirely... you want to use feats?.. then use all the consistent feats there are.. not just the one's you like.. the poll doesn't change the way in which YOU use a standard of evidence... so why bring it up?
Originally posted by Melnorme
Again, you keep trying to say this is an appeal to popularity, when I've clearly shown that it is not.
Originally posted by Melnormeand yet when i say anything about you on a subject that's actually relivant to the debate.... 🙄
My attacking your spelling isn't an an ad hominem.
Originally posted by Melnorme
I'm not trying to prove my point through that.
ad hominem doesn't dictate that you have to :appealing to personal considerations (rather than to fact or reason); "ad hominem arguments"
that's exactly what you were doing.
Originally posted by Melnorme
Do you think you've "got me", as it were? I've already disproved your point. By making fun of your spelling, I'm having fun showing others that you don't know what the hell you're talking about.
false dichotomy:
you imply I can either speel the word correctly and understand it's meaning.
or miss-spell it and not know what the hell I'm talking about..
however there is no black and white here... I can mispell it and still understand it.. or I can spell it right but lack the understanding of it...
you've disporved nothing...
Originally posted by Melnorme
By your own standard. Don't strain yourself patting yourself on the back.
would you take the opinions of less educated people on a subject over your own when you know yourself to be better educated on that same matter?
Originally posted by Melnorme
I read comics with stories. Not meaningless stat book crappola.
so do I... In a number of those comics.. wolverine's proved himself superior to spiderman...
Originally posted by Melnorme
Because it reflects the position of comic book fans who are of equal authority to yourself.
that's an assumption made by "your own standard". how does your standard distribute authority? ..and whether you realize it or not.. you've just admitted to an appeal to popularity...
🙄
Originally posted by Melnorme
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink, I guess.
guess that's why feats nor stats work on these spiderman fans...
Originally posted by Melnorme
And listening to Wolverine fans rant gives a positive reflection as to the speaker's authority
Originally posted by Melnorme
And what example was that?
I just told you 🤨
wolverine vs hulk... cmon.. trains of thought....
Originally posted by Melnorme🙄
Why ask that question three times? 🤨
cause I was hoping for an answer.... i guess I was hoping for too much... lol...
Originally posted by Melnorme
Look buddy. I've put up tons of scans. Everyone else on the Spider-Man side has put up tons of scans.
Originally posted by Melnorme
We've had to deal with everything from Photoshop fakery to arguing about who's hitting who in a shilouette panel.
neither is somethig I've done... so what?
Originally posted by Melnorme
You want to talk about who's brought more to the table? About who's posted the more cogent arguments? Fine...you go ahead and rant. I'm letting the record speak for itself.
what record? 😉
Originally posted by jinzin
explain how this is a flase dilemma.. if you can't than you concede right? 🙄
This is a false dilemma because there is another way; we can judge the feats on a case-by-case scenario, and weigh them against what we know to be true of the characters from reading. This, I think, is a better way.
Originally posted by jinzin
you're deviating again.. you strawmanned get over it...
Originally posted by jinzin
I know you don't. like I said, you can't follow trains of thought...too bad I don'thave any crayons on hand...
Originally posted by jinzin
that's what my position EVOLVED into...
Originally posted by jinzin
you're strawmanning right now.. avoiding the first position entirely... you want to use feats?.. then use all the consistent feats there are.. not just the one's you like.. the poll doesn't change the way in which YOU use a standard of evidence... so why bring it up?
Originally posted by jinzin
no you haven't... you sidetracked onto something else.. claiming that everyone who used the poll was obviously well educated enough to make a correct assessment..
Originally posted by jinzin
ad hominem doesn't dictate that you have to :appealing to personal considerations (rather than to fact or reason); "ad hominem arguments"that's exactly what you were doing.
Originally posted by jinzin
false dichotomy:you imply I can either speel the word correctly and understand it's meaning.
or miss-spell it and not know what the hell I'm talking about..
Originally posted by jinzin
you've disporved nothing...
The rest of this is just a waste of my time. Come back when you have a clue how to debate. It's like arguing with a child with a webbrowser. Actually, a lot like it. 😆
Originally posted by Melnorme
You are presenting a black or white scenario: accept all feats, or you have no standard of evidence. Or, accept all feats that are "consistant", or likewise, no standard. ,
strawman... that's not my position at all...
you either use feats (we'll obviously assume feats free of heavy PIS as we both agreed the nuke feat was a load of crap) as a standard of evidence and hence: must accept the consistent feats presented to you...
or you can use subjective feats, and your standard of evidence loses credibility...
Originally posted by Melnorme
But what makes a feat "consistant"? Things happen in comics because they sell books. Things that are successful are often repeated. Is that the sort of standard you want to go by? Something that sells?
how about consistency... 😕
when we use comics as a standard of evidence we kin of have to... everything of note in comics is done to sell. that's nothing new...
Originally posted by Melnorme
This is a false dilemma because there is another way; we can judge the feats on a case-by-case scenario,
okay.. that's fine.. there are MANY cases to choose from in the matter of wolverine vs. spidey.
Originally posted by Melnorme
and weigh them against what we know to be true of the characters from reading. This, I think, is a better way.
Originally posted by Melnorme
You'd so love that to be true. 😂.
Originally posted by Melnormeokay i can accept that.. now can you accept the fact that you're using ad hominem...
Either that or you have the grammar and spelling of a fourth grader.
Originally posted by Melnorme
Oh, we're EVOLVING now. Let's see what that means...come up with a bunch of random BS, and whatever argument seems to get torn apart the least is the winner? Sound about right?
nope... how about this..
i have a position..
you deviate from it..
I make another position to refute that deviation.. yeah that sounds about right...
Originally posted by Melnorme
And now you're strawmanning. Feats that I "like"? Do you even realize how you sound? Have I not given logical reasons for my interpretations of comic book events? Get real.
that's not a strawman... that's what the original discussion was... remember? obviously not...
it doesn't change the fact that ignoring the spiderman vs wolverine events in which spiderman looked inferior is being subjective about which feats you use...
Originally posted by Melnorme
Another straw man. I merely suggested that they are as well qualified as you. Good try at distorting my words, though.
and this reply you just gave is yet ANOTHER strawman to ignore the fact that you appeal to the vote of the popularity...
Originally posted by Melnorme
Implicitly, it does. That why it's an argument. I was just pointing out that your spelling is laughable. That was purely for fun, as stated.
no it doesn't BY DEFINITION...
Originally posted by Melnorme
Usually if someone uses the wrong words to describe something, it's a sign that he doesn't know what he's talking about.
if they use the wrong word? fine.. but using the wrong letters? as you said.. "get real!"
Originally posted by Melnorme
I mean, you could also just be a bad speller,
or that I don't care enough to spell check...
Originally posted by Melnorme
but I've seen that you don't know what you're talking about. Just as you have proven here, when you parrot "false dichotomy" after I pointed out your own.
funny how my "parrot" came before your pointing out my own.. which wasn't even a false dichotomy to begin with...
and EVEN THEN I used the term in the correct fasion and yet that asserts to you that I don't know what I'm talking about... pffft.. surrrrrre... "whatever helps you sleep at night" right? 😉
Originally posted by Melnorme
The thing that makes this most amusing is that you're too dense to even use the spellcheck on the forums. I mean [b]the forum will correct your spelling for you! How much more clueless can you get?[/B]
nope.. it's simply a matterof laziness..the spellcheck automatically shuts down after I make 1 correction.. it's not of much value to me...
nice way to deviate again though 😉
Originally posted by Melnorme
The rest of this is just a waste of my time. Come back when you have a clue how to debate. It's like arguing with a child with a webbrowser. Actually, a lot like it. 😆
you would know because you debate with a lot of children? 🤨
that's hilarious... no wonder you can't follow trains of thought... 😂
Okay.....I'm going to go at this from a different angle....if I lose you I apologigeze in advance. I roleplay.....as in dice, charcter sheets and whatnot. Due to this I have learned that powers are not everything. You can't take the powers out of context......I've had people with ice powers, that could do many different things...essencaly could do the same things iceman does....but don't due to different charaterization. Spidey.....COULD do many things but either won't or can't due to characterization. One reason why I think the way bloodlust on here is interipted badly......bloodlust means pissed not another charater entierly. Another aspect of roleplaying has taught me.......spidey is lest say 10th level.....a very strong experianced fighter, his agility and precog give him a +12 on dodge and he gets another + 10 to dodge due to level. Take Wolverine for example....prolly a 25th level character due to experiance, which would give him a plus 25 to strike and dodge, on top of lets say a +7 for ability scores. On paper who would win? The more experianced and durable fighter...Logan. Add in character inovation and creativity....you get a very equal fight.
Originally posted by jinzin
strawman... that's not my position at all...you either use feats (we'll obviously assume feats free of heavy PIS as we both agreed the nuke feat was a load of crap) as a standard of evidence and hence: must accept the consistent feats presented to you...
or you can use subjective feats, and your standard of evidence loses credibility...
That's the best you can do? Split hairs, and you still end up with a false dilemma? 😆
Originally posted by jinzin
how about consistency...
Originally posted by jinzin
when we use comics as a standard of evidence we kin of have to... everything of note in comics is done to sell. that's nothing new...
Originally posted by jinzin
and if you says spiderman wins then it's a subjective way.. how is that better?
Originally posted by jinzin
i love it cause it IS true..
Originally posted by jinzin
okay i can accept that.. now can you accept the fact that you're using ad hominem...
What part of that long explanation didn't you understand?
Originally posted by jinzin
nope... how about this..i have a position..
you deviate from it..
I make another position to refute that deviation.. yeah that sounds about right...
Originally posted by jinzin
that's not a strawman... that's what the original discussion was... remember? obviously not...
Originally posted by jinzin
it doesn't change the fact that ignoring the spiderman vs wolverine events in which spiderman looked inferior is being subjective about which feats you use...
Originally posted by jinzin
no you made the claim that they were... with no evidence to support it..
Originally posted by jinzin
no it doesn't BY DEFINITION...
Originally posted by jinzin
if they use the wrong word? fine.. but using the wrong letters? as you said.. "get real!"
Originally posted by jinzin
or that I don't care enough to spell check...
Originally posted by jinzin
funny how my "parrot" came before your pointing out my own.. which wasn't even a false dichotomy to begin with...
Google false dichotomy again. You're, as usual, mistaken.
Originally posted by jinzin
and EVEN THEN I used the term in the correct fasion and yet that asserts to you that I don't know what I'm talking about... pffft.. surrrrrre... "whatever helps you sleep at night" right? 😉
Originally posted by jinzin
nope.. it's simply a matterof laziness..the spellcheck automatically shuts down after I make 1 correction.. it's not of much value to me...
Originally posted by jinzin
you would know because you debate with a lot of children? 🤨
Case in point:
Originally posted by jinzin
that's hilarious... no wonder you can't follow trains of thought... 😂
Better get on board. Your train just left the station.
Originally posted by Melnorme
That's the best you can do? Split hairs, and you still end up with a false dilemma? 😆
Originally posted by Melnorme
Indeed.
Originally posted by Melnorme
Concession accepted.
Originally posted by Melnorme
Strawman. Prove that it is "subjective".
Originally posted by Melnorme
What part of that long explanation didn't you understand?
Originally posted by Melnorme✅well at least you can admit it.
I deviate from the subject.
Originally posted by Melnorme
you must think you're a comedian or something. You're good, I certainly can't stop laughing.
you certainly can't do much else.. like debate for instance...
Originally posted by Melnormegood I'm glad yo went back and checked to make sure... now how is the main topic of our discussion a strawman again? by your standards of course..
Unfortunately, I do. You seem to be lost. You were accusing me of using only feats that I "liked". I even mention this explicitly. You quoted it as well.
Originally posted by Melnorme
I think you're getting confused. Where was this?
Originally posted by Melnorme
I've provided clear reasoning. Again, PM me if you're confused.
Originally posted by Melnorme
Oh my. Shouting me down to prove a point? That doesn't bode well. In any case, you're wrong. It doesn't, even if you use ALL CAPS.
Originally posted by Melnorme
You frequently do both.
Originally posted by Melnormeno I'm annoyed because you deem yoursefl fit to criticize the intelligence I have about the word I misspell.. and you do so unjustly.. since I've been using them just fine...
You should. You care enough to whine that I'm unfairly criticizing your spelling. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of b****ing about it later.
Originally posted by Melnorme
Google false dichotomy again. You're, as usual, mistaken.
yknow.. I did.... just for the sake of humoring you.. and as usual you're flat out wrong... and unwilling to admit it... 🙄
Originally posted by Melnorme
Jinzin want a cracker?
nah, but do you have a crayon by chance? 😂
Originally posted by jinzin
it WOULD be false.. yknow.. if it weren't so true... 😂great! than it's agreed, spiderman loses...
good I'm glad you've finally accepted that you had to concede.
Just like arguing with a child. 😂
Originally posted by jinzin
it would be strawman if it wasn't the main point of the debate...
🙄 the proof is that you use feats to support an argument.. but ignore those that you disagree with... that in itself is being subjective..
You still haven't proven it's subjective, or what that means in this context. You lose. Thanks for trying, though. Or not. Or whatever. 😆
Well, look. Whenever you're done sticking your fingers in your ears and shutting your eyes tight to the logic of my arguments, you can come back. 'Till then, I'm sorry, but you're just going to have to learn to live with being wrong.
Now, I fully expect you to immediately come back all full of spit and fire, and to try and wheedle out some weird and contrived argument so you can at least smokescreen so it doesn't look like you just got crushed, but you know what? Save your energy. It's so predictable at this point...I mean, I just predicted that you'd do it right now. Go cool off, let a few pages tick by as other Wolverine fanboys get their sh*t pushed in like you did, and then come back.
You'll thank me for this advice, someday. 😉