The Official Shipping Debate Thread [merged]

Hermoine's a conceited biatch. That beaver-toothed geek's best chance at romance is Ron.

Like I said: J.K. is obviously going for the "smart geeky girl marries the dumb oblivious jock" cliche.

Opposites attract. At least in fiction. And Ron isn't dumb. He figured out the Chess thing in the first book. Hermoine was useless at that point. If you need more evidence, watch the third movie. J.K. Rowling co-produced the movie. It's completely obvious that Ron and Hermoine have feelings for each other. Even their goddamn pets are symbols of their future relationship. It's inevitable. It's really just wishful thinking that Hermoine will end up with Harry. Harry either dies or ends up with Ginny.

Thank You, Draco69! I felt like all of you Ron and Hermione supporters ran off on me. And it was me against a herd of H/Hr fans. and where's TS, anyway? I haven't seem him or her in a while.

Originally posted by dark1365
Okay, so...if both were true here, then Ron isn't going to realize this for a long time, which means he'll probably never make a move.

Incorrect again. If they actually were only joking around, they would've stopped sooner. And they would've been smiling slightly, not glaring at each other. If it seems geniune, it is genuine.

What you're saying right now and before don't make sense together. You said that "Ron didn't know his feelings" yet, remember? 😉 How could he possibly feel jealous, then? And another thing, Ron shows bitterness towards her. But you said that this bitterness is actually 'jealousy'. Wait. If it was jealousy, he would've been turning rather cool towards Harry, not Hermione! Or if Ron wanted to preserve their friendship, he would've only been slightly distant towards him, which didn't happen.

first off, as I said, Ron and Hermione tease eachother, nowadays, not with bitterness, but for fun. she only said that because he said something ridiculous! she always says stuff like that when ron does something ridiculous! and still, compared to Hermione, Harry and Ron are both a little inferior! both of them always turn to her for help!

Originally posted by dark1365
Okay, so...if both were true here, then Ron isn't going to realize this for a long time, which means he'll probably never make a move.

Incorrect again. If they actually were only joking around, they would've stopped sooner. And they would've been smiling slightly, not glaring at each other. If it seems geniune, it is genuine.

What you're saying right now and before don't make sense together. You said that "Ron didn't know his feelings" yet, remember? 😉 How could he possibly feel jealous, then? And another thing, Ron shows bitterness towards her. But you said that this bitterness is actually 'jealousy'. Wait. If it was jealousy, he would've been turning rather cool towards Harry, not Hermione! Or if Ron wanted to preserve their friendship, he would've only been slightly distant towards him, which didn't happen.

first off, Ron might eventually make a move, we don't know that. Second of all, I don't think they seem at all genuine, like when Ron and Hermione did that duel with each other during DA. they started bickering about who beat who in the match, that was definitely not genuine. and I find a lot more fights like that in the books than bitter fights. and third of all, you can feel jealous about something and not know it for a long time.

Originally posted by Forcewielder
Not every 24/7 like Ron and Hermoine do because both Lily and James know that too much bickering would severly damage their relationship. Plus, since they are starting a family when they had Harry, they were willing to put aside their differences so they can raise their son.

Ron and Hermoine have yet to put aside their differences and if it keeps up, they'll wind up not wanting to be near each other.

Actually, we only see a little bit of what Lily and James' Hogwarts life was like, and it shows us that they were bitter towards each other. and they could've been that way for as long as they knew each other until they actually started dating. and maybe they did bicker 24/7 like Ron and Hermione (But personally, I don't think Ron and Hermione bicker THAT much). we know very little about them. James seemed to be below Lily from what we saw. plus, they mentioned in the book that James lessened his bad attitude when he started dating lily. which might go the same for Ron if he starts dating Hermione. And Harry and Hermione's relationship is nowhere near like James and Lily's relationship.

Originally posted by KKdave
harry isn't dumb. I actually think Ron is dumber (i love ron, but hes not that bright) then harry. There are things that ron just doesnt get, that both harry and hermione do. And sure, maybe they both get help from hermione, but it's obvious that harry has much more talent in the magical sense. He's much better at doing actual magic then ron is, and a lot more emotionally matrue. Thats why I dont think hermione could handle being with ron, he's below her.

Hey! Ron's not dumb! he's just not always serious about a lot of things!

Originally posted by Draco69
And Ron isn't dumb. He figured out the Chess thing in the first book. Hermoine was useless at that point. If you need more evidence, watch the third movie. J.K. Rowling co-produced the movie. It's completely obvious that Ron and Hermoine have feelings for each other. Even their goddamn pets are symbols of their future relationship. It's inevitable. It's really just wishful thinking that Hermoine will end up with Harry. Harry either dies or ends up with Ginny.

Wishful thinking? Are you so sure? Think about Rowling. Harry is her, in a way("He literally strode out of my mind one day, fully formed."😉.

Now let's take a look at Harry. I say that he's more likely to get the girl. Look at what Rowling's done to him. He has NO family left, other than the Dursleys, and they are horrible to him.
Ron on the other side, he has a huge family, every one of them alive and well.

Hermione's more likely to admire him than Ron. Look at what Harry has faced. At the age of eleven, he was face to face with his mortal enemy, the most feared wizard of the magic world as far as we know.

At the age of eleven, Ron knocked out a troll, and got Harry and Hermione past MacGonagall's chess set. Impressive, yes, but not enough to face one's worst fear, and very likely certain death, as Harry has done.

As we move on to their second year, Hermione is petrified. But after the celebration, the book states that she "ran toward him, screaming "You did it! You did it!"." Not towards Ron. Not towards Harry and Ron. Towards Harry.

Their third and fourth books were the ones in which Harry and Hermione's relationship were the most heighted(not including the stripping down of Firebolt incident). Harry didn't realise that Hermione cared about him as much as she did.

Good Points. Not gonna change anything. But good points never the less. As I said before, H/Hr read WAY too much into the books looking for every shred of evidence that proves that Hermoine and Harry will hook up. And completely disregarding the obvious allegories and metaphors saying that Hermoine and Ron will hook up. It is wishful thinking. I can find several textual examples to prove that Harry and Draco Malfoy will hookup. However it's simply not true and is never gonna happen.

You provided very good evidence. However as I said you're relying on assumptions of what Hermoine thinks of Harry and minor incidents that prove nothing. Just some theories. It's barely hanging on a thread. It's a children's book. The author up to this point has been going for every cliche in existence. Harry has never shown strong feelings for Hermoine. All I hear is that Hermoine would never stoop as low as Ron or Hermoine really cares for Harry because she does so much for him. But what does Harry think? He is the main character after all. It is HIS point of view. Has Harry EVER thought of Hermoine in romantic light? Is there any plausible evidence that Harry likes Hermoine in a more than friends kinda way? No there isn't. None. Just some minor incidents that are badly misinterpreted by some hopelessly romantic H/Hr fans and assumptions on what the character is feeling.

Ron is most likely gonna end up with Hermoine. Harry will probably die. Or end with Luna or Ginny. It's practically set in stone. I honestly don't care if Hermoine ends up with Ron, Harry or Umbridge. Personally, I despise her. Reminds of those blasted know-it-alls in high school who raised their blasted hands every two minutes. But anyway, Hermoine is not gonna end up with Harry. It's wishful thinking. From what I see, people don't think Ron is good enough for Hermoine. Or Ginny is good enough for Harry. Hermoine may or may not have a small crush on Harry. But there's never been any textual examples from the main character himself that he likes Hermoine.

By the way, when Harry was "dating" Cho, did Hermoine get jealous at all? And yet she got jealous when Ron went with somebody else at the ball. HMMM.

I absolutely agree with Draco69. and to top it off, Hermione even said that if Ron had asked her to the ball, she would have went with him. but I still don't think Ron's dumb. as I said before he just doesn't act serious about things like homework and that makes him look dumb at times. but I really don't think he's dumb. I mean, sometimes Harry can seem dumber than Ron when he gets angry, especially for things like not being told something for his safety. I mean he tends to get angry for stupid reasons. and Harry also took that egg seriously, and Ron knew perfectly well that it was a metaphor and couldn't believe Harry took it seriously.

Harry's a little dense at times. He does stupid things. He got his godfather killed for his stupidity. He's very rash at times.

Originally posted by Draco69
Harry's a little dense at times. He does stupid things. He got his godfather killed for his stupidity. He's very rash at times.

Draco69, you said that it "was obvious" that Ron and Hermione were going to end up together. Remember what J.K. Rowling said?
Don't go for the obvious, read between the lines. Most R/He shippers go for the obvious because admit it, in their heart they want the two to get together. H/He shippers are doing exactly the opposite, which turns out to be Rowling's exact instructions: Reading between the lines, and have found several good points of evidence.

Now, there are a few things I need to make clear:

---The Yule Ball---(from Hermione's point of view)
When the Yule Ball was announced, Hermione already knew that Harry fancied Cho, so she expected him to ask Cho, not her. She was probably treating it indifferential, not letting her feelings show.

Now, Ron on the other hand has no date, so Hermione here is expecting that he would eventually ask her. She knew what her appearance looked like, and figured Ron would ask her just the way she is, since they've been friends for four years, with off times occasionally.
When Ron says that he would go with a beautiful, if completely horrible girl, Hermione feels highly insulted and bitter that he would say such a thing because she isn't exactly appealing in physique. But notice that Harry doesn't say something stupid like that, he's better of a friend than Ron is most of the time. So she snaps at Ron, leaves Harry alone, and strides angrily up to her dormitory.
At this point of time, she probably figures that she's going solo, as Ginny would have told her that even Neville was taken. One day in the library, however, who would approach her but the one and only Viktor Krum, Ron's Quidditch hero. She immediately says yes, as basically any girl would go with a date rather than solo. As an added bonus, this would show Ron that looks don't always count.

She probably wouldn't have spent so much time making up(five hours, according to GoF) if she wasn't bitter at Ron, because look at Krum; he likes her the way she is. She didn't put several dozen galleons worth of makeup on in the library and Krum just found her appealing.

So she wants to get back at Ron, and when Ron sees them at the Ball together, Hermione doesn't quite seem to get the reaction she wanted. She knew that Ron was starting to look at her differently, but she was still disapproving of his "beautiful/horrible" girl selection trait, which had remained unmoving.
What she doesn't know is that Ron is secretly brooding quietly all this time while she was on the dance floor with Krum having a good time.

to be continued in about two hours....

(continued from above)

When she comes back, she is suprised to discover that Ron is not having a good time, and asks, "What's up?"
And Ron scathingly says, "If you don't know, I'm not going to tell you."

What this means is that Ron is surely regretting not having asked her to the Ball earlier, and now that she's all pretty and beautiful, Ron obviously finds her very attractive. He's mad because she didn't go with him or Harry, as they are supposed to be her best friends.

When they get off to the common room without Harry, we find out that there has been a huge argument.
Hermione could only be possibly that angry about one thing: That Ron has still not given up his girl-selection trait.
And Ron's angry because she didn't go with him or Harry.
Hermione's even more furious. Harry going with Cho was fine, she already knew beforehand, and was expecting him to ask Cho out. But Ron here doesn't have a crush on anyone she knows of yet, so she was expecting Ron to go. She's already pissed more that Ron thought of her as a last resort. And Ron then probably says something highly not desirable to Hermione's ears, such as "Well, how was I supposed to know that you were a girl?!"

Argument escalates further.

(my dramatization)
"Why didn't you ask me first, then?!!"
"(very sarcastically)Hmmm, let's think...maybe because I wanted to get chances at some better looking girls!!"
(and then comes Rowling's part)
"Well, if you don't like it, you know what the answer is, don't you?!!"
"Oh yeah?! What's that!?"
"Next time there's a Ball, ask me before someone else does, and not as a last resort!!!"

---Harry + Cho--- (Hermione's point of view)

Even in this one, there's another clue that she still likes Harry.

Remember before Ron said "One person can't feel all that, they'd explode." and she replied angrily, "Just because you have the emotional range of a teaspoon doesn't mean we all have." BEFORE all that Hermione explained what Cho was feeling, and was met with a stunned silence.

How could Hermione be so interested in what Cho's feeling? While some may argue that this may be "friendship interest", that she's anxious about her friend's external relationships, she could not possibly know that much what the other girl has been feeling.
Let's see, if she were a good friend to him and felt that way too, she would have acted a bit like Ron, if she was happy for him. Without the weird/idiotic raucousness, that is. But when do you actually see Hermione being truly happy about it?
When she hears that the two have kissed, Ron's excited for his best friend, who has found romance. Hermione, if she felt the same amount of happiness that Ron here demonstrated, she would have done some kind of girl-squealing thing, "That's great, Harry!"

But what she does is frown solemnly at him. R/H shippers might say that this frown is only disapproval at Ron's attitude toward this news, but think about similiar experiences in real life: I recognize the attitude and
facial expression that Rowling has described, and it is in fact disappointment(that she's not the one) mixed with happiness(that Harry has actually found someone. She feels happy for him because he's found someone else to care about too, he doesn't exactly have a lot of family).

I also thought of the look that Hermione wore when she is actually asking the question, whether they kissed or not.
If she was Harry's "best friend" and she had that attitude, she would have had a hopeful/anxious look. But no, she wore a slight frown and alert eyes, which is only anxiousness/nervousness combatting.

http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/madampuddifoot/edit-amiers01.shtml

Here's an article I found to be quite interesting. It's mostly about the love triangle with Hermione, Ron, and Victor. but the person makes good points why hermione only sees harry as a friend. and I, totally agree with the article. though I'm not to sure if the link I put up will work.

Didn't work.

http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/madampuddifoot/edit-amiers01.shtml

there, It should work now.

It worked. So basically, what you're supporting is a Krum/Ron/ Hermione thing.

---Viktor Krum's View-------

Let's look at Krum. He's an internationally famous Seeker, with many girls to chase him around. Some very attractive ones, too. So why would he choose Hermione?

The reason is that he's tired of girls that love him because of his Quidditch capabilities, nothing else. Like Hermione said, "They just like him because he's famous!"
Krum probably knows that she doesn't like him because of his fame. He realises that Hermione is a girl with intellect, one whom he is capable of talking with without Hermione always wanting to talk about his Quidditch. She is more mature for her age than she looks, and Krum admires her because of this.

Hermione is indifferent to him, expecting that he would find another girl to go with. But when Krum tentatively asks her (I know it's tentative because of how Hermione described it) to go to the Ball with him, Hermione probably realises that she judged him wrong. He was willing to go with her, a nerd in her own opinion, instead of some good-looking fan. Even more so, he was shy and nice about it. She realises that there's more to Krum than meets the eye, that he's a normal 18-year old guy at heart, and he likes it that way sometimes. So she agrees.

There is another clue that Hermione likes Harry more than Krum, Sara stated it herself in that article. Remember that she was too busy cheering Harry to engage in conversation with Krum?

Now, Hermione had most likely by now to realise that Krum is on the verge of falling in love with her. She's kind at heart, as a girl.
So why would she just simply ignore him like that?
Couldn't she just stop cheering and talk to him, she could always congratulate Harry anytime later, as they can go to the castle together. But Krum is under orders from Karkaroff to remain on the Durmstrang boat at night, he can't go and see Hermione.

Another clue is when Krum accuses Harry of having an affair with Hermione.

Sara makes an excellent argument that it was Skeeter cow's article that provoked this, but there's one point that she missed out:

"Herm-own-ninny talks about you very often."
"Yeah. Because we're friends."

So Hermione has been talking about Harry to Krum, eh?
Why Harry, why not Ron? Think about it, again a real life comparison. Girls only talk about things they really hate or really like. And Hermione certainly doesn't hate Harry. Ron's her best friend too, surely she would have talked about him too.

Dude, didn't you read all of the article? the reason Viktor asked that was because the article said that! If it were Ron being said in the article, Viktor would've asked him! Not just that, but Hermione wouldn't tell Viktor too much about Ron because Viktor knows more about Harry than he does Ron. Plus, Viktor was only concerned about whether Harry liked Hermione at the time, because Rita Skeeter put it out to make it look like that. And Hermione never blushes near Harry when Viktor's either around or asked about. she just smiles. When Ron asks her about Viktor, she blushes. and as the person said, blushing is caused by emotional discomfort.

Originally posted by #1Rupert_Lover
If it were Ron being said in the article, Viktor would've asked him! Not just that, but Hermione wouldn't tell Viktor too much about Ron because Viktor knows more about Harry than he does Ron.

The first is true, but the second? Hermione wouldn't tell Krum much about Ron because Viktor already knows about Harry? Wait a minute, that doesn't seem right now, does it? It would only make sense that if Krum already knew about Harry, Hermione would probably know it. But she talks about Harry very often, according to Krum. He probably doesn't even know Ron's first name.

Originally posted by #1Rupert_Lover
And Hermione never blushes near Harry when Viktor's either around or asked about. she just smiles. When Ron asks her about Viktor, she blushes. and as the person said, blushing is caused by emotional discomfort.

Emotional discomfort, yes, but not the kind you're thinking of.

By the time the Yule Ball has passed, Hermione with her cleverness probably figured out that Ron liked her.

Look at the comparison of Harry's and Ron's feelings toward Krum. Harry has no problem about it at all, that's why Hermione doesn't blush when she talks about Krum in front of Harry.

Look at Ron, on the other side. He feels somewhat hostile/jealous of Krum, because of Hermione. As I said, she has probably already figured out that Ron has feelings for her. She doesn't want to go with him, but doesn't want to hurt his feelings or lie to him either. So she tells the truth, knowing that Ron will take offense to it, which leads to emotional
discomfort, which leads to blushing.

Originally posted by dark1365
The first is true, but the second? Hermione wouldn't tell Krum much about Ron because Viktor already knows about Harry? Wait a minute, that doesn't seem right now, does it? It would only make sense that if Krum already knew about Harry, Hermione would probably know it. But she talks about Harry very often, according to Krum. He probably doesn't even know Ron's first name.

Viktor only focused on Harry because of the article! Hermione might very well talk about Ron a lot, as well, but Viktor might have avoided that fact because the article never said anything about Ron. it was all about him and Harry, and Hermione with the love potions. he probably only started to notice that fact because of the article, and didn't pay attention to hermione's mentionings of Ron, because he was too caught up with the article and Harry's mentionings.

Originally posted by dark1365
Emotional discomfort, yes, but not the kind you're thinking of.

By the time the Yule Ball has passed, Hermione with her cleverness probably figured out that Ron liked her.

Look at the comparison of Harry's and Ron's feelings toward Krum. Harry has no problem about it at all, that's why Hermione doesn't blush when she talks about Krum in front of Harry.

Look at Ron, on the other side. He feels somewhat hostile/jealous of Krum, because of Hermione. As I said, she has probably already figured out that Ron has feelings for her. She doesn't want to go with him, but doesn't want to hurt his feelings or lie to him either. So she tells the truth, knowing that Ron will take offense to it, which leads to emotional
discomfort, which leads to blushing.

Actually, Hermione stated in one part of the book that she would have went with Ron if he had just asked. and perhaps hermione didn't figure out Ron's feelings for her. we just all assume she does. plus, I realize that she wouldn't keep mentioning Krum near Ron if she knew Ron liked her more than just a friend. I mean even a smart person like Hermione probably has trouble figuring those things out.

Originally posted by #1Rupert_Lover
Actually, Hermione stated in one part of the book that she would have went with Ron if he had just asked. and perhaps hermione didn't figure out Ron's feelings for her. we just all assume she does. plus, I realize that she wouldn't keep mentioning Krum near Ron if she knew Ron liked her more than just a friend. I mean even a smart person like Hermione probably has trouble figuring those things out.

Note that this was after Krum asked her. On the contrary, I am sure she wouldn't turn down one of her best friends unless they both ask her and she has to deny one.

Even if Hermione doesn't even realise that Ron has feelings for her, that's still a bad sign that she doesn't like Ron back, otherwise she would have noticed it sooner, much sooner. Again I bring back the part where she tells him shortly that she doesn't really like the perfume in the fifth book.

On the circumstances that Ron actually liked her at this point, and I am near 100% sure that he does, he probably would have been really sad, crushed if he really liked her. But you carefully read his facial expression, and it appears as though he carefully masked it. Also, he delivers a verbally incorrect sentence: "No problem,", which suggest he was very distracted at the time.

cute d/e vid

True

Link doesn't work.

I agree with Dark! 😄 😄