Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You still believe he has unstoppability and invincibility. I find that quite amusing. Because he has neither. As I have proved.
you have proved it?? no you just keep saying i'm wrong. when i'm right. how does that prove anything??? heheh..
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Secondly, what is so hard to understand? Why, when confronted with a two sentence fact, do you repeat the "energies from dimensions" thing, that I haven't even denied?
you are denying it because you are argueing with it...
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Watch: Juggernaut was pushing War Hulk with forward motion, he didn't lose power. War Hulk STOPPED HIS FORWARD MOTION and stopped him from pushing.
yes, but not with physical might, it was because of a negation factor.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'll simplify that: Juggernaut was pushing, then he wasn't. Because he was stopped.
lol, i find that funny, i dunno why.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
What planet did they fight on? In which Solar System? In which Universe?Answers: Earth, Earth's and The universe in which Earth resides.
yes, they did fight on earth. BUT the energy that juggernaut was opposing was not of this universe. which is what juggernauts powers are based on. this universe. havnt i said this before??
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Energy or not, it does not change the fact that Juggernaut is not unstoppable. Even if that instance never happens again, the fact remains he was stopped.
yes, but a complete different set of rules. the rules that juggernauts magics are based on, he IS unstoppable. that is the universe normal
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The problems with this sentence are plentiful. Here's why:A) If they have a straight 1 on 1 and Hulk fails to overpower him, then come here and tell me that his strength isn't unlimited and he can't overpower Juggernaut. Stop saying that the Hulk CAN'T do things when he hasn't even tried to do them.
he HAS tried to do them. in hulk 402, hulk said he was braced, and if he was braced juggernaut wasnt going to push him over with his charge. but guess what happened?? who got pushed back?? i believe it was hulk. in issue 172, hulk was described as "being on the virge of insanity" with rage. but he somehow failed to be stronger than juggernaut. these are 1 on 1 fights. no outside influences.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
B) Hulk has never overpowered Juggernaut? Well if the overpowering part is just what we're refering to, I'll point you in the way of Hulk #172. I trust you've read it. The one where Juggernaut jumped onto Hulk's back and tried with no avail, to break the Hulk's neck. Hulk then grabbed him, pulled him off his back, picked him up by his head and swung him around then flung him into a mountain.
yes, but juggernaut in that issue was also strong enough to cause the walls of the cage to nearly buckle with a single punch while hulk was raging against it with no visual affects. without juggernauts help, hulk wouldnt have ever gotten free. juggernaut also emphasized that hulk was -almost- his equal in physical strength (almost isnt equal) and juggernaut also told hulk his attacks were getting weaker (contrary to that whole madder/stronger theory of hulks) while juggernaut was getting STRONGER.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Juggernaut got up, I know this. However you said Hulk had never OVERPOWERED him. I think that breaking a neck grip that Juggernaut had on him FROM BEHIND and flinging him into a mountain constitutes as an overpowering maneuuuuuver.
or it constitues as flinging a 900 lbs man.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Don't say Hulk can't do something that he's never tried and then talk to me of logic when the comment you just made was illogical.
he has tried, and failed on his own power 😉
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
A Galaxy isn't something you can physically grab onto is it?
no, but the infinites did it... talk to them. this is after all comics...
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You're blowing this a tad out of proportion. You would need more than physical strength for that. If Superman is strong enough to move a planet, and Hulk is theoretically stronger....? Yessss that's right.
actually i think you will find MANY that disagree that hulk is stronger considering superman in ALL their encounters overpowers him. and for the sake of arguement, lets say you compressed an entire galaxies matter into the size of a house. could hulk lift it??? he's have the leverage, but the strength?? i doubt it...
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No, because of the way you present your debates.
pretty damn good i must say.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I swear in that one sentence you just re-arranged Juggernaut's power purely to negate the War Hulk fight. Yet you talk of consistency?
and this is your new arguement??
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I said I'll use Absolute AND common sense. Because........they are two different things. Stop accusing me of misdirecting then doing the same thing back.
i'm not doing the same thing. i'm telling you the difference between the 2.... again is this your new arguement??
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Definition says "Impossible or difficult to preclude or stop." When someone refers to another as an "unstoppable" foe, the don't mean "Man I can't beat that guy when he's not standing still." It doesn't apply solely to movement.
to be stopped you HAVE TO be moving in the first place. otherwise how can it be considered a stop??
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So THAT'S why you think Juggernaut was stopped. Because you are taking it upon yourself to pair the stopping of Juggernaut by War Hulk being infront of him, to the fact that he had augmentation.
thats IS why war hulk stopped him. because he was "augmented". you hit the "nail on the head".
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Tell me somethin', if War Hulk already had the power to vehemently negate Juggernaut's power, why didn't Juggernaut stop dead when he tried to push War Hulk? Hmm.
because war hulk wasnt surrounded in the energy at first. only when he COMPLETELY surrounded himself, did juggernaut stop. but before that war hulk was being pushed back. juggernauts magic didnt function against the energy, and he could no longer push him.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
And you also accused me of nitpicking....funny. You're becoming more hypocritical by the second. From now on, anything you say not relating to the characters, fight or circumstances of the fight, I'm not replying to. Pointless.
its all relevant... hulk vs juggernaut.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
EXACTLY. You have every right to refer to him. Hence why in the other thread I said "It's referable material." You can refer to anything, but if you refer to something we both know is rather unapplicable. It's going to be laughed at isn't it? Like you did to the guy in the other thread. If you can refer to movie Hulk, I can refer to the guy you like to call "Imposternaut" (who in actual fact, was Juggernaut) then put him against Hulk and watch HIM get beaten to a pulp. Then we can go back and forth 🙂. Referable material does not equate to being accurate material. Refer to it all you want but don't expect it to be taken seriously.
you can refer to the imposternaut all you want, i'd agree whole heartedly that hed get the living snot beat outta him by the hulk. but because hes been severeily depowered 😉
it did happen and it was a 90s version comic taking place after hulk beat the **** out of the x-men and was captured by apocalypse then at tjhe end of thew issue you cansee juggernaut running in and it says it wikll be continued which it is and hulk beats juggernaut then goes to cut his head off with an ax but apocalypse gets involved
Originally posted by Spawn of Satan
it did happen and it was a 90s version comic taking place after hulk beat the **** out of the x-men and was captured by apocalypse then at tjhe end of thew issue you cansee juggernaut running in and it says it wikll be continued which it is and hulk beats juggernaut then goes to cut his head off with an ax but apocalypse gets involved
lol, 1) apocalypse doesnt get involved 2) this is what we have been debating for a few pages now. why hulk was able to stop juggernaut. because he was being powered up heavily in that ONE issue. that one issue alone.
Originally posted by KillAll
lol, 1) apocalypse doesnt get involved 2) this is what we have been debating for a few pages now. why hulk was able to stop juggernaut. because he was being powered up heavily in that ONE issue. that one issue alone.
yes but is a power up that the Savage Hulk can eventually reach, just it will take longer to get there! yes the hulk was given some extra struff such as creating that sword thingy but that level of strength he is capable of reaching!
Since Juggernaut doesnt need to eat, sleep, breath, etc, The Hulk will get tired of using Juggernaut like a punching bag and has to just throw his butt somewhere far away
This unstoppable stuff and cant stop moving foward crap is just hype to give to the character.
Onslaught proved that he was stoppable and killable! If only he decided to finish the job there, it would of been a better ending in my opinion to Juggernaut than the other way he died.
War Hulk was about to do the same..
I wonder how Juggy would fare against the strongest version of Hulk which I believe is Dark Hulk or Devil Hulk bwahahahahahah 😮💨
"you have proved it?? no you just keep saying i'm wrong. when i'm right. how does that prove anything??? heheh."
I really find it tiring when everyone but one or two people seem to grasp what I am saying and then expect me to say it all over again. I've literally just gone over two debates with two people about it. Not about to do it with a third just to say the same thing.
"you are denying it because you are argueing with it..."
Bit illogical rationale considering I've never actually denied it.
"yes, but not with physical might, it was because of a negation factor. "
Then again I ask, if he had the power to stop Juggernaut's power as you say, why was Juggernaut's power in tact until, oops, War Hulk didn't wanna be pushed anymore? Coz War Hulk, with his arms, braced himself and stopped him.
"yes, they did fight on earth. BUT the energy that juggernaut was opposing was not of this universe. which is what juggernauts powers are based on. this universe. havnt i said this before??"
I've said many things before I'm forced to repeat, not because I don't understand them, but because others don't. Don't say "Haven't I said this before" as if what you say should only ever be said once. If you say something that I can, with opinion and info, argue against. I will.
"the rules that juggernauts magics are based on, he IS unstoppable. that is the universe normal"
Not by definition he isn't. You're basing this on the one-two combo of ignorance and unacceptance.
"yes, but juggernaut in that issue was also strong enough to cause the walls of the cage to nearly buckle with a single punch while hulk was raging against it with no visual affects. without juggernauts help, hulk wouldnt have ever gotten free."
This isn't a Jug Vs The Cage thread. Way to COMPLETELY dodge what I said before that. Smooth.
"juggernaut also emphasized that hulk was -almost- his equal in physical strength (almost isnt equal) and juggernaut also told hulk his attacks were getting weaker (contrary to that whole madder/stronger theory of hulks) while juggernaut was getting STRONGER."
A bit biased isn't it? Juggernaut isn't gonna come out and admit when he's getting beat, or that he's weaker, or anything else. Not against the Hulk. That's a ridiculous piece to quote. Hulk is easily Juggernaut's equal and more in pure strength.
"or it constitues as flinging a 900 lbs man."
That was on his back, fighting to break his neck, until Hulk just didn't want him there anymore, and removed him. Hype Up Juggernaut, Demean Hulk. That's always your technique.
"he has tried, and failed on his own power"
In overpowering Juggernaut? No he hasn't. You don't choose to label it overpowering, that's you.
"actually i think you will find MANY that disagree that hulk is stronger considering superman in ALL their encounters overpowers him. and for the sake of arguement, lets say you compressed an entire galaxies matter into the size of a house. could hulk lift it??? he's have the leverage, but the strength?? i doubt it... "
I don't consider Hulk to be Superman's level in strength because of the fact that he has unlimited strength, but because you don't like that idea, I'm not going over it again with you. If he completely and utterly tried to, yes. If you did that with the galaxy.
"pretty damn good i must say."
No, pretty biased and inconsistent. See next quote.
"and this is your new arguement??"
Considering that you wrote in brackets, and entire exception to Juggernaut's power that conveniently applied to only War Hulk, yes. But that's nothing to do with this debate, it was a comment on your technique.
"to be stopped you HAVE TO be moving in the first place. otherwise how can it be considered a stop??"
When the F4 go to STOP Galactus or STOP a bad guy. What do you think they mean?
"thats IS why war hulk stopped him. because he was "augmented". you hit the "nail on the head"."
See my quote near the beginning.
"because war hulk wasnt surrounded in the energy at first. only when he COMPLETELY surrounded himself, did juggernaut stop. but before that war hulk was being pushed back. juggernauts magic didnt function against the energy, and he could no longer push him"
Do you have proof of this? I've read the comic and I didn't see it written that War Hulk used anything but his strength to stop him.
"its all relevant... hulk vs juggernaut"
Exactly, Not KillAll Vs AC, literally anyway. So why pick out posts and reply to them without reference to the characters?
"you can refer to the imposternaut all you want, i'd agree whole heartedly that hed get the living snot beat outta him by the hulk. but because hes been severeily depowered"
But I'm not, because it's a bit stupid to. Like you would be stupid for referring to Movie Hulk. Just saying, you have the right to if you so wished.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Then again I ask, if he had the power to stop Juggernaut's power as you say, why was Juggernaut's power in tact until, oops, War Hulk didn't wanna be pushed anymore? Coz War Hulk, with his arms, braced himself and stopped him.
i'll explain it again, even though i did once, and you read it farther down the page. and i think it might have started to sink in. hulk was being pushed back until he completely surrounded himself in the energy that negated juggernauts magic. not because he "braced himself and stopped him". its quite obvious if you look at the sequence of events what was going on. if you actually OWNED the comic, instead of just "reading" or "skimming" through it, i would be able to walk you through it. after hulk stopped juggernaut, every time hulk came into contact with juggernaut (punching, and even the sword at the end) was charged with the energy. because i guess he figured it worked.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
This isn't a Jug Vs The Cage thread. Way to COMPLETELY dodge what I said before that. Smooth.
i didnt dodge it but its a direct comparison of strength. or punching power even. hulk had been raging for nearly 2 days, but could cause NO visable damage by punching the cage walls. juggernaut COULD. with little to no effort. that is a direct comparison of strength between juggernaut (greater) and hulk (smaller).
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
A bit biased isn't it? Juggernaut isn't gonna come out and admit when he's getting beat, or that he's weaker, or anything else. Not against the Hulk. That's a ridiculous piece to quote. Hulk is easily Juggernaut's equal and more in pure strength.
yea, ok, but hes more than proved it 😉
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That was on his back, fighting to break his neck, until Hulk just didn't want him there anymore, and removed him. Hype Up Juggernaut, Demean Hulk. That's always your technique.
isnt that how debates work?? make 1 look good, make the other look bad?? and hulk wasnt "on his back" he was setting down. juggernaut didnt "fight him" to break his neck, he grabbed his hair, and hulk screamed out in pain. with a rage induced "panic" i guess you could say hulk then grabbed juggernaut by the helmet, lifted him from the ground and flung him. its a matter of moving a 900lbs man, which is well within hulks capabilities.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
if you did that with the galaxy.
so you think hulk is strong enough to literally support the mass of billions of stars, asteroids, planets that float around in a single galaxy?? thats not just billions of lbs, thats billions of stars, which significantly would weigh more than any earth, or double earth sized commet that hulk might have came into comment before. he couldnt lift an entire galaxy no matter how angry he got. therefor he isnt "unlimited" in strength.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
When the F4 go to STOP Galactus or STOP a bad guy. What do you think they mean?
again you are getting confused. juggernauts "unstoppabiliy" applies when he is in motion. to his forward movement. if he isnt moving, you cant "stop" him. thats as far as the "unstoppable" juggernaut goes.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Do you have proof of this? I've read the comic and I didn't see it written that War Hulk used anything but his strength to stop him.
then you read it wrong. its quite apparent what is going on. juggernaut pushes hulk back until hulk becomes engulfed completely in a green energy (extra dimensional energy). only then does war hulk stop juggernaut. not because he "braces" for it. or because hes stronger... no, its because juggernauts magics didnt function against it. there are pics floating around this board, i'll see if i can find them.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Exactly, Not KillAll Vs AC, literally anyway. So why pick out posts and reply to them without reference to the characters?
i narrowed "our" arguement down to everything juggernaut hulk related, so its no longer about "us". except for this part...
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
But I'm not, because it's a bit stupid to. Like you would be stupid for referring to Movie Hulk. Just saying, you have the right to if you so wished.-AC
well, thats what brought about the whole universe proper thing. juggernaut was going against forces that were foreign to his magic, and that his magics couldnt function properly against. therefor he lost. its as simple as that. if it would have been any 100 ton titan with extra dimensional energy they could have "stopped" juggernaut. not because there strength exceeds his, but because they negated the property that made him unstoppable.
Originally posted by x_danny_x
yes but is a power up that the Savage Hulk can eventually reach, just it will take longer to get there! yes the hulk was given some extra struff such as creating that sword thingy but that level of strength he is capable of reaching!
it wasnt a matter of strength that war hulk stopped juggernaut with 😉 please read my other post to a. c. thats what we've been debating. i think its starting to sink in, he might finally understand.
I'll deal with the green energy references and pics at the end. Save quoting the large paragraphs.
"i didnt dodge it but its a direct comparison of strength. or punching power even. hulk had been raging for nearly 2 days, but could cause NO visable damage by punching the cage walls. juggernaut COULD. with little to no effort. that is a direct comparison of strength between juggernaut (greater) and hulk (smaller)."
Hulk was raging for almost 2 days eh? Earlier pages saw you determine, on your own I might add, that he can't stay raging for that long.
"isnt that how debates work?? make 1 look good, make the other look bad?? and hulk wasnt "on his back" he was setting down. juggernaut didnt "fight him" to break his neck, he grabbed his hair, and hulk screamed out in pain. with a rage induced "panic" i guess you could say hulk then grabbed juggernaut by the helmet, lifted him from the ground and flung him. its a matter of moving a 900lbs man, which is well within hulks capabilities."
The purpose of a debate is to prove your point. You have taken it into the realms of trying to demean and disprove blatant Hulk feats by loopholing. The doing the same to promote Juggernaut.
Secondly, while Jug may not have literally been hanging on the man's back, he was grabbing him from behind in an attempt to break his neck. If you don't call Hulk pulling him off against his will, swinging him around and dashing him into a mountain, overpowering, then you're just clearly ignorant to the fact that it happened.
"so you think hulk is strong enough to literally support the mass of billions of stars, asteroids, planets that float around in a single galaxy?? thats not just billions of lbs, thats billions of stars, which significantly would weigh more than any earth, or double earth sized commet that hulk might have came into comment before. he couldnt lift an entire galaxy no matter how angry he got. therefor he isnt "unlimited" in strength."
If Hulk stood there pissing himself off, he could reach unfathomable levels of strength, previously unreached with no theoretical point of cessations. There is no concrete way you or I can absolutely prove he has unlimited strength. However there are more things based on his character and actual powers, pointing to the likely possibility of unlimited strength, than there are not.
"again you are getting confused. juggernauts "unstoppabiliy" applies when he is in motion. to his forward movement. if he isnt moving, you cant "stop" him. thats as far as the "unstoppable" juggernaut goes."
I've got something to say on this and it ties in with the energy theory. Stay tuned, aka now.
You say that the green energy is the negation energy, an assumption (which MAY very well be a just one. Not gonna confirm not deny coz it isn't stated).
Well let me point something out because this is a gem (no pun intended) that needs to be cracked out.
Juggernaut's very powers come from Cytorrak, an otherworldly entity. So lets take into account what you said before, Hulk's strength is irrelevant to Juggernaut. Well I'm gonna make another claim, one that may shock and discredit you......
....War Hulk Vs Juggernaut........was an equal fight.
Confused? No reason to be.
Juggernaut is powered ridiculously (by that I mean highly, not actually stupid) by an otherworldly power, then goes to EARTH and acts like the man coz he "can't" be stopped. It's like Lou Ferrigno walking into a pre-school and acting as though him not being able to be stopped by it's inhabitants is some unnaturally achievable accolade.
War Hulk was powered by an otherworldly entity. Juggernaut has Cytorrak, Hulk had Celestial. So if the augmentation did or didn't enhance the PHYSICAL strength of Hulk as War, it wouldn't matter to you would it? Coz you believe Hulk's strength regardless, cannot match Juggernaut's when down to physicality. So it all came down to magic powered big guys duking it out, your man lost. When confronted with an equally ridiculous power, he is nothing. Hence why my previous claims of Juggernaut being overly covered is true, why has he got an OTHERWORLDLY universal power, on Earth? Nobody else has that, especially seeing as Juggernaut wasn't born a mutant.
So if we're getting technical, War Hulk Vs Juggernaut would count. AND THEN there's always the fact of:
If Apocalypse can just make anyone a Horseman with intense power, why did he go and hand pick Hulk? If he can make anyone to that degree.
The answer is clear, and to quote Hulk "Because it's too obvious."
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Hulk was raging for almost 2 days eh? Earlier pages saw you determine, on your own I might add, that he can't stay raging for that long.
it was stated in the comic that hulk had been raging for nearly 2 days. and if he cant stay raging for 2 days, how on earth do you expect him to beat juggernaut?? thanks for proving MY point.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The purpose of a debate is to prove your point. You have taken it into the realms of trying to demean and disprove blatant Hulk feats by loopholing. The doing the same to promote Juggernaut.
and i'm proving my point with the pics. they are not "assumptions" it is fact. read hulk 450 - 457, it explains what the extra dimensional energy is. and thats also why hulk was able to break the bands of cyttorak.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Secondly, while Jug may not have literally been hanging on the man's back, he was grabbing him from behind in an attempt to break his neck. If you don't call Hulk pulling him off against his will, swinging him around and dashing him into a mountain, overpowering, then you're just clearly ignorant to the fact that it happened.
he grabbed his hair 😉 i assume hulks hair would rip before juggernauts grip would break. hulk simply lifted him up and threw him. juggernaut has also physically held hulk in spot, hulk unable to break free 😉 thats just part of the back and forth of a fight. but hes never been "stronger" than juggernaut to the point of him being completely dominant in a fight. he never will be either. regardless of how mad he gets.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If Hulk stood there pissing himself off, he could reach unfathomable levels of strength, previously unreached with no theoretical point of cessations. There is no concrete way you or I can absolutely prove he has unlimited strength. However there are more things based on his character and actual powers, pointing to the likely possibility of unlimited strength, than there are not.
unlimited lol... so if him and LT (Living Tribunal) got into an arm wrestling match, who would win?? would hulk eventually get strong enough to overpower him??? hulk isnt absolute either you know...
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You say that the green energy is the negation energy, an assumption (which MAY very well be a just one. Not gonna confirm not deny coz it isn't stated).
actually, read above. it describes the energy and what it is. it is energy from another universe. its in the story arch. it isnt just described in that comic 😉 apparently you havnt read them, cause you are now trying to prove pictures wrong. its not assumption, its fact. deal with it.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Well let me point something out because this is a gem (no pun intended) that needs to be cracked out.
heh...funny
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Juggernaut's very powers come from Cytorrak, an otherworldly entity. So lets take into account what you said before, Hulk's strength is irrelevant to Juggernaut. Well I'm gonna make another claim, one that may shock and discredit you..........War Hulk Vs Juggernaut........was an equal fight.
well it wasnt exactly equal. you are so messed up i dont know what you are talking about any more 😉 and cyttorak, is still part of this universe. he is an other WORDLY entity, but he still is bound by the rules and laws of this reality.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Confused? No reason to be.
no, but you clearly are...
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Juggernaut is powered ridiculously (by that I mean highly, not actually stupid) by an otherworldly power, then goes to EARTH and acts like the man coz he "can't" be stopped. It's like Lou Ferrigno walking into a pre-school and acting as though him not being able to be stopped by it's inhabitants is some unnaturally achievable accolade.
so you are comparing juggernaut as lou ferrigno and hulk as pre-school children?? you are a sick n twisted man, how the hell is this helping your arguement...
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
War Hulk was powered by an otherworldly entity.
mistake 1) war hulk wasnt powered by any entity 2) war hulk was powered not by other worldly energy, but other UNIVERSAL energies. there is a difference 😉
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Juggernaut has Cytorrak, Hulk had Celestial.
wrong again. hulk didnt have "celestial" might (which is still capable of beating juggernaut). the celestial tech allowed him to harness the energy from a whole different universe (which had a whole different set of properties from main stream marvel).
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So if the augmentation did or didn't enhance the PHYSICAL strength of Hulk as War, it wouldn't matter to you would it?
if it was purely a physical standpoint, it wouldnt have harmed juggernaut. but he was negating juggernauts magic, therefor he could theoretically harm him. and stop him.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Coz you believe Hulk's strength regardless, cannot match Juggernaut's when down to physicality. So it all came down to magic powered big guys duking it out, your man lost.
yes he did "lose" but only under unusual circumstances. hulk cant produce those results on his own. is this not a "hulk vs juggernaut" thread???
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
When confronted with an equally ridiculous power, he is nothing. Hence why my previous claims of Juggernaut being overly covered is true, why has he got an OTHERWORLDLY universal power, on Earth?
cyttorak is part of this universe 😉 and he wasnt "nothing" he was fighting was he not?? his magics (that make cain marko juggernaut in the first place) simply werent functioning properly. its like going to a gun fight. except your gun doesnt work. and mine does. whos more likely to win??? obviously the guy with the gun that DOES work.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So if we're getting technical, War Hulk Vs Juggernaut would count. AND THEN there's always the fact of:
nobody said it didnt count 😉 but hulk cant produce these very same results on his own. hence the name war. war has a win on juggernaut. hulk does NOT.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If Apocalypse can just make anyone a Horseman with intense power, why did he go and hand pick Hulk? If he can make anyone to that degree.
nobody said he could make anybody to that degree. apocalypse picked up on the other wordly disturbance. he picked up on hulk funneling 2 universes worth of energy. which is why he picked him. not because of hulks abilities 😉
The answer is clear, and to quote Hulk "Because it's too obvious."
-AC [/B][/QUOTE]
you are quoting war, not hulk. war works differently than regular hulk
"it was stated in the comic that hulk had been raging for nearly 2 days. and if he cant stay raging for 2 days, how on earth do you expect him to beat juggernaut?? thanks for proving MY point."
What in the hell? I was merely pointing out that you had before stated he wasn't capable of raging that long. I believe other wise and apparantly so do the writers. Talk about twisting words.
"hulk simply lifted him up and threw him."
SIMPLY? Simply lifted and threw him? Now you're proving my point.
"unlimited lol... so if him and LT (Living Tribunal) got into an arm wrestling match, who would win?? would hulk eventually get strong enough to overpower him??? hulk isnt absolute either you know..."
Living Tribunal isn't humanoid, only for the basis of seeing him as something other than a floating head.
"actually, read above. it describes the energy and what it is. it is energy from another universe. its in the story arch. it isnt just described in that comic apparently you havnt read them, cause you are now trying to prove pictures wrong. its not assumption, its fact. deal with it."
I'm not trying to prove pictures wrong. Stop telling me what I am doing without actually asking me. You said yourself it's not described, which it isn't. It's said that Hulk then, has energy from other dimensions. Not "That green stuff, that's the power". You are, instead of seeing my point, making a futile effort to place my posts in one extreme or another.
"well it wasnt exactly equal. you are so messed up i dont know what you are talking about any more and cyttorak, is still part of this universe. he is an other WORDLY entity, but he still is bound by the rules and laws of this reality."
I then asked if it left you confused there was no reason to be, you claimed "No". It was a claim that I knew, at first glance, you would say that sort of thing to. Hence why I explained myself. I'm messed up? You've changed stances on this more times than I can remember. Disguised well, but changed.
"so you are comparing juggernaut as lou ferrigno and hulk as pre-school children?? you are a sick n twisted man, how the hell is this helping your arguement..."
Yet you call me confused. Please reply to metaphors if you can understand them. It was a DRASTIC metaphor, metaphors aren't literal. Chill out. Why you continually try to make your posts seem packed more by just quoting one line or so by me, that you have no specific need to reply to, then make a complete and utter unneeded stab at it, is the only confusing thing. I use jocular comment and sarcasm, you drive it to the grave and quite frankly, your debates are no better for it. If you actually think you've challenged me in this thread, you're mistaken.
"mistake 1) war hulk wasnt powered by any entity 2) war hulk was powered not by other worldly energy, but other UNIVERSAL energies. there is a difference"
There are not OTHER WORLDS in the UNIVERSE then? Celestials are entities. Apocalypse is an entity in a broad sense.
"wrong again. hulk didnt have "celestial" might (which is still capable of beating juggernaut). the celestial tech allowed him to harness the energy from a whole different universe (which had a whole different set of properties from main stream marvel)."
Such assumptions. What sort of energy do you think CELESTIAL tech was attracting? I think you are making assumptions as to what universes have what set of properties and laws now. Out of hand, drastically. Clutching at straws is such an understatement at this point.
"if it was purely a physical standpoint, it wouldnt have harmed juggernaut. but he was negating juggernauts magic, therefor he could theoretically harm him. and stop him."
Why are you saying he could THEORETICALLY do something that he actually did? Physicality, as I said, from what you said earlier, would have no effect regardless. So it was Hulk's power at the time Vs Juggernaut's power at the time. Both derived from outside forces, Hulk didn't lose. It's really simple, stop trying to disprove something just coz you dislike it.
"yes he did "lose" but only under unusual circumstances. hulk cant produce those results on his own. is this not a "hulk vs juggernaut" thread???"
So when Hulk is powered up, he is no longer Hulk. When Juggernaut is powered down, he's no longer Juggernaut but "Imposternaut"? Yet when Juggernaut HAS received power ups, you've seen fit to mention them. Hypocritcal to the maximum there.
"war has a win on juggernaut. hulk does NOT."
War was Hulk. Hulk's body, Hulk's face. It was Hulk. Just like Imposternaut, whether you like it or not, is still Juggernaut. Cain Marko. You have a distinct lack of ability to realise that changes to not equate to making it a different person. To a lesser degree, Construction Worker Cain Marko therefore has a knockout over Hulk. Juggernaut does not. If that's how we're playing the game.
"nobody said he could make anybody to that degree. apocalypse picked up on the other wordly disturbance. he picked up on hulk funneling 2 universes worth of energy. which is why he picked him. not because of hulks abilities"
Apocalypse picked up on what you all deny is there, the limitless potential. Just like when he fought Onslaught, all that happened was Hulk's power was brought to the forefront.
"you are quoting war, not hulk. war works differently than regular hulk"
Juggernaut didn't think he was a different person. Juggernaut asked him "Why aren't you doing what you normally do?"
How can he do what he normally does if he's never been "normal"? Juggernaut classed him as I do, War HULK. HULK was still there. It wasn't some insane clone of power.
-AC