Juggernaut or The Hulk?

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
He isn't flinching, he has just suffered a blow and he is reeling. Angel and the old Human Torch couldn't have knocked Juggernaut's head backwards like that, or cause him to winch in pain.

This is going so far off topic... If Juggernaut knows he's invincible, why would he flinch?

The celestial armor increases War Hulk's durability, not his strength. War Hulk isn't the one that flung Juggernaut into a mountain, It was Savage Hulk in issue 172.

Juggernaut was on Hulk's back, and while lying on his stomach Hulk reached back, grabbed him by the Helmet, swung him around, and flung him into a mountain.

I swear the fight where Juggernaut got thrown into the mountain and lost his helmet had nothing to do with War Hulk.

Just me.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I swear the fight where Juggernaut got thrown into the mountain and lost his helmet had nothing to do with War Hulk.

Just me.

Originally, you said War Hulk threw Juggernaut into a mountain.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Originally, you said War Hulk threw Juggernaut into a mountain.

Originally posted by Linkalicious
That's what I completely assumed. Considering the fact that the only way he would have known where to find Juggernaut was by telepathically searching for him.

And since Jugg's ended up in the mansion when he was supposed to be well underneath it....I think it's safe to assume the whole thing went on in his head.

I have a question...what issue does Onslaught smack Jugg's across the US?

I might have it and not even remember...stupid stoner memory! *shakes fist in air*

Uncanny X-Men, issue 322, Onslaught knocks Juggernaut from Canada to Hoboken, NJ. Juggernaut still had the power of Cytorrak, and yes, Juggernaut was knocked out.

It isn't "crappy writing" to say that Juggernaut can be knocked out by Onslaught, or any other person with "incalculable" or "near infinite" strength. The writers never said that Juggernaut was invincible.

Here is the "unstoppable" Juggernaut, KOed.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Uncanny X-Men, issue 322, Onslaught knocks Juggernaut from Canada to Hoboken, NJ. Juggernaut still had the power of Cytorrak, and yes, Juggernaut was knocked out.

It isn't "crappy writing" to say that Juggernaut can be knocked out by Onslaught, or any other person with "incalculable" or "near infinite" strength. The writers never said that Juggernaut was invincible.

What does what an uber-powerful psionic did have to do with Hulk?

Yes he did have his powers Swanky. He battled the X-Men soon after he recovered.

Onslaught is not only a psionic, he has Level 7 (Incalculable) strength that has nothing to do with his psychic abilities. This was not a psionic attack, (notice the helmet is intact,) it was a physical blow. I am only displaying the fact that Juggernaut can be knocked out by physical force, and thus, he is not invincible.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Yes he did have his powers Swanky. He battled the X-Men soon after he recovered.

Onslaught is not only a psionic, he has Level 7 (Incalculable) strength that has nothing to do with his psychic abilities. This was not a psionic attack, (notice the helmet is intact,) it was a physical blow. I am only displaying the fact that Juggernaut can be knocked out by physical force, and thus, he is not invincible.

Onslaught himself saying he couldn't of done that while Cain was connected to his powers suggests he shut them off.

Juggernaut is at full power, and his costume regenerates later on. The picture you posted takes place after the picture I posted. You are displaying Juggernaut being stripped of his power by Onslaught. The attack that sent Juggernaut to New Jersey and knocked him out could not have possibly been psionic, his helmet is intact in that picture. Juggernaut can be harmed by physical force.

Snap, he gets stuck in the gem after that.

Regardless, it's still possible it could of been a psionic attack. Hell, he could of been so powerful that he pierced the helmet. After all, if there was no possible way for Cain to of been attacked mentally, he wouldn't of had mental blocks now would he?

Clutching at straws, are we?

If Juggernaut has two layers of psionic protection, both of them are "impervious" and mystical in nature, how would Onslaught (who only has the augmented telepathic ability of Charles Xavier) penetrate the helmet. Why would Onslaught remove the helmet later, if he could easily penetrate it? Why would a telepathic attack send Juggernaut several hundred miles? Let's face it, Juggernaut is not invincible.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
If Juggernaut has two layers of psionic protection, both of them are "impervious" and mystical in nature, how would Onslaught (who only has the augmented telepathic ability of Charles Xavier) penetrate the helmet. Why would Onslaught remove the helmet later, if he could easily penetrate it? Why would a telepathic attack send Juggernaut several hundred miles? Let's face it, Juggernaut is not invincible.

Why does any of this matter when it took a form of Hulk that this new professor hulk couldn't physically hold a candle to do any damage?

Knowing that his strength is based on his adrenaline level, I'd like to know how he'd get as powerful as Onslaught without succumbing to the limits of human emotions. He's not going to be constantly pumping out adrenaline in such a long fight because it would become so mundane to him. And adrenaline fades over a pretty short amount of time.

The mental blocks are there to protect him in the absence of his helmet, since he knows that it is easily removed.

The "New Professor Hulk" isn't the Professor Hulk at all, it's a merger of all of the dominant Hulks. True, the "Mindless Hulk" that Jean created exercises near infinite strength, but the Current Hulk could acheive similar levels of strength. As I said before, the longer Hulk is in the fight, the more adrenaline will be released. Fighting the Juggernaut isn't going to keep Hulk calm, he's going to keep getting more and more pumped until he knocks Juggernaut out.

Do you now admit that Juggernaut is not invincible?

We skipped the "Invincible" hurdle a long time ago.

He isn't invincible.

-AC

Hulk has already demonstrated strength greater than Onslaught's and Juggernaut's. "The limits of human emotions?" Emotion is not the source of his power. It's not just how angry he gets, It's how angry he gets, as well as how long he stays that angry. Marvel does not say that Juggernaut is invincible. However, Marvel does say that Hulk possesses the capacity for near infinite strength.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
The mental blocks are there to protect him in the absence of his helmet, since he knows that it is easily removed.

As I said before, the longer Hulk is in the fight, the more adrenaline will be released. Fighting the Juggernaut isn't going to keep Hulk calm, he's going to keep getting more and more pumped until he knocks Juggernaut out.

Say you're in the ocean. You're wearing your wetsuit and one of those mesh anti-shark suits. A shark tries to tear you in half. You're in his mouth freaking out and you have a huge rush of adrenaline. But eventually you calm down because you're realizing that the suit is protecting you. You're still on your toes because you're in a shark's mouth but you're in control of yourself.

Say this shark is trying to tear you in half for 3 days. You're still on your toes because you're in a shark's mouth but you're pretty much just inconveinenced being in this shark's mouth for so long. You know the shark isn't going to hurt you.

And for the love of Bob, this isn't about if the shark had super strength it could bite through the mesh. And for the sake of simplicity, I'm not mentiong bodily functions, air supply, sleep, food and water, the fact that the mesh suits still let the shark squish you but not tear your flesh off, and that the shark could swallow you whole if you were turned longways.

It's about the state of mind. You are saying that if Hulk's mind was in that diver's body he would be freaking out for 3 days straight? If not, his adrenaline level will never decrease from that first rush of getting chewed on by the shark?

Do you now admit that Juggernaut is not invincible?

Poor analogy; it's based on your false belief that Juggernaut is invincible. Hulk isn't going to be fighting for days. And once again, Hulk doesn't have to charge up strength, he can instantly flip out. Let's say that they start out at relatively even strength. We don't know this is a fact, it is only an assumption. All we know is that both of their strengths are far above 100 tons. One adrenaline surge and Hulk's way stronger than Juggernaut.

Juggernaut is not invincible. If someone can be knocked out or harmed by physical force they are not invincible. If the picture doesn't prove this to you, perhaps you just don't want to believe it.