Juggernaut or The Hulk?

Started by newjak86486 pages

I would love to see Jugg's get back to classic form but keep his advancements as a character. I mean one of things I liked about current Juggs is they finally added more dimensions to his charater. He gained a brain and in his depowered state you saw more of the person behind the helmet.

Thats one thing i "hate". Characters needing to be depowered to get some depth. Its all in a writters imagination. Its not so much that heroes need to be depowered to be interesting and to struggle with the villians, its more the villains ( some of them ) completly suck.

Now...yeah you cant have a superman pre crisis walking around and everyone else weak. Same way you cant have a almost unbeatable Jugs and everyone else sucking. But depowering -some- like Herc and Jugs and leave for example Hulk the same now that is lame.

Depowering works if everyone is also in proportion.

I agree I have never thought that Juggs needed to be depowered to gain depth to his character. I felt that he possesed all the things already even when he first came out. Come on he was Prof. X's step brother. He fought in a war for his country. Alot of material was there but it was nevered used.

well juggie will have to suffer like the hulk in order to add frailty to his character , which comic writers seem to think adds appeal from readers, hulk has been knocked out by a snake for goodness sake, aswell as had batman wind him by kicking him in his stomoch, juggie if he is going to be a popular character will suffer the same. besides hulk would always on him as he has limitless strength to tap into.

When did Hulk ever showed his limitess strenght? He rarely showed strengh to overcomed Herc or Thor nevermind beings on a higher level.

How can you have limitess strenght when you never won a single fistcuf with Thanos? Thanos who doesnt beat either Zeus or Odin (heck and Hades or Poseidon) Zeus and Odin who are nothing to celestials.

See where im heading? How can you be limitess if you dont reach levels to beat these beings.

Hulk high level is above the guys who are 100+. But it stops there.

Oh and the snake incident was just that. A low showing. He was never depowered. You cant be depowered when you beat guys like Abom all the time.

Originally posted by Tough Guy
well juggie will have to suffer like the hulk in order to add frailty to his character , which comic writers seem to think adds appeal from readers, hulk has been knocked out by a snake for goodness sake, aswell as had batman wind him by kicking him in his stomoch, juggie if he is going to be a popular character will suffer the same. besides hulk would always on him as he has limitless strength to tap into.

ok, i'm not sure if this has been mentioned on the debate or not, but i'd like to share information with you specifically because you are the one that keeps saying hulk has no limit to how strong he can get. if you can counter this, with legitimate information, i might consider taking you serious from this day forth. i was having a conversation with a well versed person in comics (specifically marvel), and this was what was said... issue numbers and all 😄. it was about hulk failing to do something, or raging to his limit. hulk DOES have one... feel free to prove this wrong

: what occasions has this been shown in??? i'd
: really like to see that one , i've not been
: reading/buying many comics lately, i dunno
: whats going on anymore...

Two come immediately to mind offhand. On one occasion the Leader devised a plan to make Hulk rage to his limit,thereby causing the Hulk to have a heart attack. The plan is working until it's interrupted just as Hulk starts reaching his max and begins to clutch his chest in pain. On another occasion Hulk is fighting a giant monster from another dimension and the monster pins him under it's foot. The Hulk pounds and pounds and pounds until finally he can't anymore and is nearly crushed. I believe the caption says Hulk's strength is almost nothing to the monster's.

Alright. It took me awhile since I haven't sifted through my Marvel comics in ages but I found them. The Leader plan is from the Incredible Hulk #139. The Hulk being hopelessly overpowered by the dinosaur-like monster was in the Incredible Hulk Annual #13.

: were there any unusual
: circumstances in the 2 instances you stated,
: that maybe affected hulks ability to get
: stronger??

As a matter of fact there was quite an important extenuating circumstance in the annual. It is the Mindless Hulk,who's feats are often misleadingly used and was actually stronger than the Savage Hulk,who is outmuscled by the monster. And this was the Hulk who did not have the subconcious Banner block on his strength that the Savage Hulk has.

everything with : beside it, is what i was saying, everything else is the comic book genious, that has helped me prove you wrong once and for all... but i already know what you are going to counter with... "bad writing". yea, well i'm about five steps ahead of you now, and thats not going to cut it anymore.

just an overview of what happened in the issues 😄 :


Hulk #139 - The Leader deduces that the Hulk could be killed by cardiac arrest if he were to rage past a critical point. To accomplish this the Leader has the Hulk fight a series of holograms of his old foes. Hulk grows madder/stronger until he eventually begins to tire and finally starts having chest pains. The holograms are dissolved just before Hulk has a heart attack.

Annual - Hulk is wandering a strange dimension he was sent to by Dr.Strange when suddenly he gets stepped on. He pounds,tugs,and claws to free himself but to no avail. The monster's attention is grabbed by something and it leaves. The Hulk anguishes because he cannot stand his strength being so insignificant in comparison to the creatures around him.

Yes, Tough Guy, he was indestructable by any physical force not backed by magic. No way around that.

i fully agree and that shows hulk unable to do stuff as happens to him at times, however it is a well known fact hulk has no limit to his strength, so thats that , he has been knocked out by a python b4, has been winded by batman and sent to sleep, these things happen, however on numerous occasions he has been shown to tap into power a power source that shows no limits. and thats the upper side to hulk, the side i am arguing about). as for thanos etc odin etc, on a physical level no they wouldnt be any more powerful than hulk. hulk couldnt have a cardiac arrest as he would heal too quickly if he was indeed that enraged, just to add that flaw.
my point is olympian that he has low showings to underline his frailties as that is how comic writers make their characters more appealing, whickhi is clearly why juggie is being written the way he currently is. and kill all putting low shows of might ( like juggie trapped in cement chortle chortle) is irrelevant to what the character actualy is capable of. writers freely use hulk on a number of different scales. like they do supes and many other heros. hulk written on good form would stomp anyone physically and reach whatever levels of strength required to do whatever as that was how he was created as a character.END

ALSO JUGGIE IS JUST HIGHLY DURABLE AGAINST MOST PHYSICAL ATTACKS

"Juggernaut and the Hulk have fight soooooo many times and the Hulk ALWAYS win"

pardon but how many times you think Jugs got beat by the Hulk? I only recall the heros reborn age where Hulk was upgraded by Apocalypse tech.

And Jugs does have a win against Hulk. A dubious one by sucker shot thats why its not counted for much. But he did it with strenght only, take that in consideration.

218 pages in, I'll say what I've been saying all along.

You can get technical all the way, but Juggernaut just isn't going to beat Hulk if they're both aware and both fighting to win. It's simple.

That's not fanboyism or bias. If they met in a comic, one on one. One man has to walk away. Who would it be?

-AC

All these pages and only 20 votes, wierd.

"One man has to walk away. Who would it be?"

One or the other.....no?

Wolverine?

Hes just watching in this fight 😛

Oh, so he's taking his servants place (LT) and being the over-see-er?

Originally posted by olympian
"Juggernaut and the Hulk have fight soooooo many times and the Hulk ALWAYS win"

pardon but how many times you think Jugs got beat by the Hulk? I only recall the heros reborn age where Hulk was upgraded by Apocalypse tech.

And Jugs does have a win against Hulk. A dubious one by sucker shot thats why its not counted for much. But he did it with strenght only, take that in consideration.

You're aware that there are a lot of different incarnations of Hulk right? They vary in durability, and Prof happens to be on the bottommost rung.

War Hulk didn't really "beat" Juggernaut. He didn't do anything to him that Savage Hulk couldn't. Savage Hulk threw Juggernaut into a mountain. War Hulk pinned him and threatened to decapitate him, and I'm not sure if he was actually capable of doing so.

War -could- possibly have chopped his head off. Was his sword magic to any degree?

I think it is, because he used it to negate Jugs 1st power, to never be pushed back.

And it's proven nothing harm him physically without magic backing it up.
But, if it wasn't......

Also, are we dismissing Hulk nearly having a heart attack (by becoming to angry) and Hulk not being able to over power the moster(while underneath the monsters foot), because he's changed?

I dont think it was magical. Just celestial tech. War Hulk was whole amped with it.