Juggernaut or The Hulk?

Originally posted by loosecano
stuff happen but he's not being the hulk. beside if hulk punch off juggernaunt helmet, no my bad when hulk punch off juggernaunt helmet off! wat then can't exactly say TO HULK TIMEOUT NEED PUT MY HELMET BACK ON. that how the x-men beat juggernant all the time.

You're mistaken there. The X-Men beat him that way, ONLY because they usually have a psychic on there team, which is the only reason Juggernaut needs his Helmet. Other than that, it doesn't matter if he's wearing it or not, as he's shown in one of his fights with Hulk and another with Colossus before, where he fought with neither his armor or armor, and held the advantage in both fights.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
I know that. I was just unsure if that is the incident Dalak is referring to. It makes since that this was the same time that Juggy gained his Trion upgrade and punched through dimensions. Or some other outside source helped him. I'm not too sure.

Back on topic, why was this even brought up?

Because Hulk has shown that he can affect Dimensions when angry enough. Therefore he can punch a hole in a dimension that would probably suck Juggernaut into it after long enough, and that's not going to take long enough for Hulk to come close to worrying about fighting too long.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Clearly I was exaggerating, I know that Savage Hulk can increase his strength exponentially. But my point remains the same. Has Hulk ever destroyed a planet with three punches? No. You don't believe a confident Gladiator could've done the same to said device?

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Yea, the Hulk has kicked Thor's ass. Guess who else has kicked Thor's ass more than once?

Juggernaut.

The second time they fought however, where neither one had any advantages or disadvantages, Thor did very well against him.

Originally posted by Tron
You're mistaken there. The X-Men beat him that way, ONLY because they usually have a psychic on there team, which is the only reason Juggernaut needs his Helmet. Other than that, it doesn't matter if he's wearing it or not, as he's shown in one of his fights with Hulk and another with Colossus before, where he fought with neither his armor or armor, and held the advantage in both fights.

Professor Hulk. A fight with the Savage would be much different.

Still about the only way for either of these guys to win is BFR,

And without it Hulk would probably end up being disqualified FOR the BFR, unless he gets so mad he's able to affect Magic as physically as he can affect Energy and Reality.

Originally posted by Accel
He's destroyed an asteroid twice the size of the Earth with just one punch before (in his weakest incarnation no less). Gladiator could probably do the same, but it really depends on his emotions.

The first time Thor and Cain fought, Thor was at a disadvantage due to being sick. The third time, Juggernaut received a powerup.

The second time they fought however, where neither one had any advantages or disadvantages, Thor did very well against him.

Secondly in the second Fight thor has to use one of his more exotic powers to negate Juggs connection to Cyttorak and even then he can't put him down and once Thor's spell stops being Cast Cain instantly gets all his powers back and Thor knows he can't beat Cain by anyother means save BFR.

Never has Thor ever shown to capable of taking on a full powered Cain as shown.

Originally posted by newjak86
Actually in the first fight Thor suffers from dizziness from time to time not that he is sick and Thor makes no Reference throughout the fight of being weakened getting dizzy from time to time ios not the same as being weak from being actually sick.

Originally posted by newjak86
Secondly in the second Fight thor has to use one of his more exotic powers to negate Juggs connection to Cyttorak and even then he can't put him down and once Thor's spell stops being Cast Cain instantly gets all his powers back and Thor knows he can't beat Cain by anyother means save BFR.

Originally posted by newjak86
Never has Thor ever shown to capable of taking on a full powered Cain as shown.

Originally posted by Accel
The fact that he was suffering from various seizures and/or dizzy spells means no one can say he was peak condition when he fought Cain the first time.

Right, so without Cyttorak's help, Juggs lost his enchanted invulnerability it became more of a contest of strength, where Thor had more blows before he had to summon his hammer back.

We've also almost never seen Thor utilize his full power effectively, like in his fights against Juggernaut.

When Thor negated the enchantment, he really didn't do all that much at all to change the battle. Juggy was still HIGHLY resistant to harm, since he is naturally resistant even without this forcefield. Those blows didn't appear to be doing any damage to Juggy whatsoever, just knocking him around. As soon as he was done being knocked around, he was right back to full strength.

But anyway, I digress.

Juggernaut wins. Quickest way is through BFR.

I still dont see why people think Juggernaut cant attack Hulk all out with his shield up from the start of battle and score a KO. Hulk has been KO'ed before by people many tiers below Juggernaut.

Its kinda downplaying Juggernauts Abilities to think he cant score a KO on a Non-enraged to a moderatly enraged Hulk.

Let's not overrate Juggernaut. Hulk isn't going to stand still when Juggernaut attempts to kayoe him. Now, if these fights were tied to a script, then maybe. Scripted fights allow for endless possible scenarios(even without PIS and CIS). But this is a forum fight. If you say Juggernaut attacks Hulk fast and hard, then I can easily say that Hulk saw him coming and blocked his punches.

Although to be honest, a full powered Juggernaut(100%) has infinite strength. Now that would be impossible to stand up to for long. However, a full powered Hulk might do it, although we've never seen one.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
Let's not overrate Juggernaut. Hulk isn't going to stand still when Juggernaut attempts to kayoe him. Now, if these fights were tied to a script, then maybe. Scripted fights allow for endless possible scenarios(even without PIS and CIS). But this is a forum fight. If you say Juggernaut attacks Hulk fast and hard, then I can easily say that Hulk saw him coming and blocked his punches.

Of course, I mean Hulk would fight back, but he would never Hit Juggernaut, because of his Shield. I'm not saying Juggernaut would KO him 10/10, but surely he could beat him a few times by rushing him all out from the start.

Its been proven, since others have KO'ed Hulk, Overload of Pain>>>>His Rage.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
Although to be honest, a full powered Juggernaut(100%) has infinite strength. Now that would be impossible to stand up to for long. However, a full powered Hulk might do it, although we've never seen one.

The only Difference between the two is Juggernaut can increase his abilities through focus, Hulk must become enraged, usually by an outside source or foe.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
The only Difference between the two is Juggernaut can increase his abilities through focus, Hulk must become enraged, usually by an outside source or foe.

Cyttorak is an outside force, technically. Anyway, is there some cold hard evidence that says Juggernaut can increase his strength through focus? Because he himself said "something is making me more powerful". That doesn't sound like focus.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
When Thor negated the enchantment, he really didn't do all that much at all to change the battle. Juggy was still HIGHLY resistant to harm, since he is naturally resistant even without this forcefield. Those blows didn't appear to be doing any damage to Juggy whatsoever, just knocking him around. As soon as he was done being knocked around, he was right back to full strength.

But anyway, I digress.

Juggernaut wins. Quickest way is through BFR.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
I still dont see why people think Juggernaut cant attack Hulk all out with his shield up from the start of battle and score a KO. Hulk has been KO'ed before by people many tiers below Juggernaut.

Its kinda downplaying Juggernauts Abilities to think he cant score a KO on a Non-enraged to a moderatly enraged Hulk.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Of course, I mean Hulk would fight back, but he would never Hit Juggernaut, because of his Shield. I'm not saying Juggernaut would KO him 10/10, but surely he could beat him a few times by rushing him all out from the start.

Its been proven, since others have KO'ed Hulk, Overload of Pain>>>>His Rage.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
The only Difference between the two is Juggernaut can increase his abilities through focus, Hulk must become enraged, usually by an outside source or foe.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Of course, I mean Hulk would fight back, but he would never Hit Juggernaut, because of his Shield. I'm not saying Juggernaut would KO him 10/10, but surely he could beat him a few times by rushing him all out from the start.

Its been proven, since others have KO'ed Hulk, Overload of Pain>>>>His Rage.

There are also many powerful forces that couldn't even KAYOE him in a calm state. Now, a truly enraged Hulk has never been knocked out in a non-PIS fight. I can't even think of an instance WITH the aid of PIS, for that matter.

Edit: again, in a scripted fight he might do it. It's not impossible. But in a hypothetical fight it's useless. For all we know Hulk is keenly aware of Juggernaut's tactics. The Hulk has a lot of history riddled with both decent showings and ridiculous showings(either positive or negative). It's hard to derive an honest fight from that. That's why I say that we should go by abilities only.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
Cyttorak is an outside force, technically. Anyway, is there some cold hard evidence that says Juggernaut can increase his strength through focus? Because he himself said "something is making me more powerful". That doesn't sound like focus.

Have you ever seen anything that Juggy couldn't break/lift? (Classic) Juggernaut's strength is limitless. Just depends on his situation.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Have you ever seen anything that Juggy couldn't break/lift? (Classic) Juggernaut's strength is limitless. Just depends on his situation.

Originally posted by Accel
Juggernaut doesn't have the means to properly BFR Hulk. Unlike, say Superman, if Juggernaut actually threw Hulk into the atmosphere, Hulk could simply thunderclap and propel himself back down before he reached the stratosphere.

Hulk's also taken blows from plenty of people as strong or stronger than Cain and did fine.

The shield doesn't really prevent people from touching him, just slows down the movement of projectiles coming his way.

Juggernaut needs outside help to increase his strength-Cyttorak. If Cyttorak doesn't lend his power to Cain, he doesn't get stronger.

No offense, but that sounds like a severe downplay of Juggy's strength. He could throw Hulk so hard that no amount of thunderclaps would stop Hulk's trajectory.

And the shield can indeed stop people from touching him. He hardly ever employs the "bubble" shield that he has. He normally just uses the skin-tight one.

And he can be as strong as he wants to be. Have you ever seen anything that Juggy couldn't break/lift when he was in his classic form? His strength depends on his situation.

Originally posted by Accel
Juggy rarely ever tries to lift any thing in the 100 ton or over region. His powerset is mainly unlimited durability.

So that's a "no" then? Cuz everythnig I've seen him try to break/lift, I've seen him break/lift.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
No offense, but that sounds like a severe downplay of Juggy's strength. He could throw Hulk so hard that no amount of thunderclaps would stop Hulk's trajectory.

And the shield can indeed stop people from touching him. He hardly ever employs the "bubble" shield that he has. He normally just uses the skin-tight one.

And he can be as strong as he wants to be. Have you ever seen anything that Juggy couldn't break/lift when he was in his classic form? His strength depends on his situation.

If Cain doesn't need Cyttorak, then why couldn't he lift more than Colossus recently? Classic Juggernaut had his power because Cyttorak gave it to him. When he stopped doing so, Cain couldn't get any stronger.

I don't think I've ever seen Thing fail to lift any thing either. Does that mean he also has unlimited strength?