Juggernaut or The Hulk?

Originally posted by Soujaboy
A vast number of low showings = Normal showings

he's been ko'd numerous of times enraged or not. You know this.

Oh yes, it was also explained by marvel editors that through focus Juggernaut can increase his strength by calling on the unlimited power of Cyttorak.

When/Where/How? Oh yeah, please don't tell me to E-mail them.

E: Oh yeah, what makes more sense: Abomination/Herc having a long fight with Hulk and not being able to KO him, or Rhino/Spiderman taking him down

Those high showings you talk about are during enraged states where he is given time to increase strength. Low feats are mostly from calmer hulks. Juggernaut would Ko hulk before he could build any anger.

Hulk 6.5/10

wrong.

Originally posted by TheDecider
Those high showings you talk about are during enraged states where he is given time to increase strength. Low feats are mostly from calmer hulks. Juggernaut would Ko hulk before he could build any anger.

Except he didn't when given the chance in thier first encounter. Hulk got angry/strong enough quick enough to keep going and freed himself from a very solid hold.

That's one example of how it is possible but improbable.

And some people here voted Juggs because they said Hulk had to breathe, which isn't true anymore. I didn't bring it up til now though since I'm not complaining concerning the way they are voting, just whenever they use faulty evidence as their rationale.

Originally posted by Soujaboy
Ok Accel, be serious. Are you honestly saying that Cain Marko who stated on panel has the power to shatter worlds with his punches and can increase his strength through focus can't put down the Hulk who has been ko'd by far less characters such as Spiderman, Namor, Doc Samson, Rhino, and many others?

Hulk's been knocked out by less. So what? He's also stood up to more without faltering. Even at his base, Hulk's taken blows from the Super-Adaptoid (with the strength of every Avenger), Drax w/ the PG, Warrior-Madness Thor, and even Classic Juggernaut himself. For some reason, people choose to ignore these incidents and just shout, "but he lost to Rhino!"

When he was knocked out by Samson, he wasn't expecting a fight, nor was he angry. We all already know Namor is top-tier underwater. The writer of the fight where Rhino beat him thought that Rhino's strength + intelligence= Advantage, even though Hulk has bested Abomination and Thing before (not to mention that Hulk didn't appear to be knocked out any way).

If at the beginning of the fight, we have a pissed-off Cain charging and trying his hardest to knock out Hulk and Hulk on the other hand is calm (and I mean COMPLETELY calm) and not even angry yet for some reason, or even expecting a fight like the stet he was in when Samson knocked him out, then yes, Juggs knocks him out.

HOWEVER, Hulk will also be pissed off at the beginning of the fight and Cain ain't exactly a speed-demon. He's not going to speedblitz Hulk before Hulk can be prepared for his attack. AT the beginning of the fight, Hulk will NOT be calm, but pissed, meaning that his strength and durability will escalate dramatically (his strength reached Celestial-level in mere moments before). I honestly don't see why this is so hard to accept.

Originally posted by Dalak
When/Where/How? Oh yeah, please don't tell me to E-mail them.

E: Oh yeah, what makes more sense: Abomination/Herc having a long fight with Hulk and not being able to KO him, or Rhino/Spiderman taking him down

Hulk's letter pages, check around pg 227-229 of this thread. The weird thing is the editor's first sentence in regards to the question: 'There isn't a set answer...' At least for *heroes* I wouldn't think there would be much doubt, off the top of my head.

That Hulk doesn't need to breath however is news to me. That he can breath underwater, true. That he can hold his breath for a long ass time, true. That Nick Fury *believes* Hulk can breath in space, true. But that he doesn't need to breath?

I've already answered, but here I go again.

Hulk's been knocked out by less. So what? He's also stood up to more without faltering. Even at his base, Hulk's taken blows from the Super-Adaptoid (with the strength of every Avenger), Drax w/ the PG, Warrior-Madness Thor, and even Classic Juggernaut himself. For some reason, people choose to ignore these incidents and just shout, "but he lost to Rhino!"

Classic Juggernaut (We are talking about him, aren't we?) is immune to physical damage. That's a given fact supported by myriad showings. All Hulk can dish out is raw power, a lot of it actually, but the only way he can defeat Cain is battlefield removal.

So, without BFR, Juggernaut takes every single battle, though they would be long and brutal. With the possibility of BFR, I would give Hulk some wins, but not the majority...

Originally posted by lft4ded
Hulk's letter pages, check around pg 227-229 of this thread. The weird thing is the editor's first sentence in regards to the question: 'There isn't a set answer...' At least for *heroes* I wouldn't think there would be much doubt, off the top of my head.

That Hulk doesn't need to breath however is news to me. That he can breath underwater, true. That he can hold his breath for a long ass time, true. That Nick Fury *believes* Hulk can breath in space, true. But that he doesn't need to breath?

Originally posted by Tshern
I've already answered, but here I go again.

While I definitely agree that people are vastly disregarding Hulk's feats (such as stalemating Drax with the power gem) and emphasising his very low showings, I also have to mention that Hulk, excluding War Hulk, has never been able to win the Juggernaut on his own.

Classic Juggernaut (We are talking about him, aren't we?) is immune to physical damage. That's a given fact supported by myriad showings. All Hulk can dish out is raw power, a lot of it actually, but the only way he can defeat Cain is battlefield removal.

So, without BFR, Juggernaut takes every single battle, though they would be long and brutal. With the possibility of BFR, I would give Hulk some wins, but not the majority...

Originally posted by Accel
It's not that he doesn't need to breathe any more, just that he can breathe in space now.

Hulk won't win, but he will stalemate Cain.

You cannot stalemate those who you can't harm. No matter how angry the Hulk ever becomes, he will always be on the losing end of this fight. No matter how angry the Hulk gets, he can still feel pain from attacks, he can still be ko'd.

Originally posted by Soujaboy
You cannot stalemate those who you can't harm. No matter how angry the Hulk ever becomes, he will always be on the losing end of this fight. No matter how angry the Hulk gets, he can still feel pain from attacks, he can still be ko'd.

He can't beat someone who he can't harm, but he can stalemate him.

Originally posted by Dalak
When/Where/How? Oh yeah, please don't tell me to E-mail them.

E: Oh yeah, what makes more sense: Abomination/Herc having a long fight with Hulk and not being able to KO him, or Rhino/Spiderman taking him down

Here go's the proof you've been longing for. This should close the case with this thread. Out of the Hulks on comic book, on his letter page.

Thanks lft4ded

BTW, Dalak you should have e-mailed them. 😉

Originally posted by Soujaboy
Here go's the proof you've been longing for. This should close the case with this thread. Out of the Hulks on comic book, on his letter page.

Thanks lft4ded

BTW, Dalak you should have e-mailed them. 😉

Originally posted by Soujaboy
Here go's the proof you've been longing for. This should close the case with this thread. Out of the Hulks on comic book, on his letter page.

Thanks lft4ded

BTW, Dalak you should have e-mailed them. 😉

That ed's note said "current opinion". In case you didn't know, "current" Hulk, at the time, is supposed to mean Prof. Hulk. Prof. Hulk is far, far, far from the strongest character in the Marvel Universe. That much is true.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
That ed's note said "current opinion". In case you didn't know, "current" Hulk, at the time, is supposed to mean Prof. Hulk. Prof. Hulk is far, far, far from the strongest character in the Marvel Universe. That much is true.

I don't want to be a pet peeve, but how old is that? When it was printed to a comic book, it WAS the current opinion, but how is it now?

Anyways, if Hulk gets lucky he might win some via BFR, but in a brawl Cain takes it.

Originally posted by Tshern
I don't want to be a pet peeve, but how old is that? When it was printed to a comic book, it WAS the current opinion, but how is it now?

Anyways, if Hulk gets lucky he might win some via BFR, but in a brawl Cain takes it.

It mentions issue 419, which is most certainly Prof. Hulk(I.e Peter David) era.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
That ed's note said "current opinion". In case you didn't know, "current" Hulk, at the time, is supposed to mean Prof. Hulk. Prof. Hulk is far, far, far from the strongest character in the Marvel Universe. That much is true.

Please look at yourself, and then slap the hell out yourself. That was posted over a year ago, a long time before Planet Hulk, and when Juggernaut was classic Juggernaut.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
It mentions issue 419, which is most certainly Prof. Hulk(I.e Peter David) era.

Shut the Hell up, he clearly stated that Cain could call upon the limitless power of Cyttorak.

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
stop this BLAH BLAH BLAH bullshit now you are arguing with marvel headquartes official opinion tha Juggernaut is stronger than Hulk so just SHUT THE HELL UP!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not arguing with Marvel.