Juggernaut or The Hulk? · Comic Book 'Versus' Forum

Apolloknight Your rule is at an end

Originally posted by Accel
There's not much to get. Just because something is possible, doesn't mean it's going to happen. For instance, it's much more possible that Juggernaut will knock Superman out in one punch than the other way around. Doesn't mean he'll succeed though. It's also possible I'll discover a new animal species tommorrow. Doesn'tmean that's likely either.
Eh? Ehhhh? Do ya get it now?

Umm, no, I don't get it, saying something is possible but not likely, then saying its going to be a stalemate because its shouldn't happen is technically impossible.

For instance, If i were to say The chances of earth being hit by an asteroid is "possible but not likely", then right after that I say that "so it should never happen", sounds stupid as hell right?

The chances of Earth being hit by an asteroid are very little, but the thing is we have scientist constantly looking for that doomsday asteroid because its not likely, but still possible

Heck, some new species of Plant or animal is discovered every now and then, its not likely, but still possible

All I'm trying to say is, if you don't think Jugges cant knock Hulk out, just say it is impossible, thats it, just impossible. don't give me this "well its possible but not likely" Crap, because it will never make any sense due to the fact that "possible but not likely" is still in juggernauts favor anyway you look at it.

Originally posted by Accel

I've been saying this all along. Hulk's taken far worse than Juggernaut's punches and made it through just fine.
Who's knocked out Savage/Mindless Hulk? The first ones who comes to mind are Namor, Iron Man, and Samson. I'd say it's safe to say that Namor's underwater punch packed more power behind it than Cain's punch at base strength would, as did Iron Man's all-out punch. And Samson cheap-shotted Mindless Hulk, who later on took blows from Class 100s and shrugged them off.
Add this to the fact that Savage has taken punches from people as strong or stronger than Cain, and I'm going to say that going by consistency, those were just relatively low showings for Savage, like Juggernaut getting the wind knocked out of him by Prof. Hulk. It's not unreasonable to say Hulk can take Juggernaut's punches without faltering.

Can I ask you a question, ever consider the fact that Hulk taking blows from Drax was a low showing for Drax? I mean everybody on this forum pretty much agrees Champion with the power gem and non-jobbing is pretty freaking powerful and not many can stand up too him. Technically, while in possession of the power gem one has Infinite strength, not limitless but infinite, an entirely new concept.

Technically if hulk could stand up to something like that, Everything below that should be considered PIS because now Hulk is like Juggernaut Physically unable to be KO'ed. Thus the Hulk vs Heavy hitters Thread. 😉, no physical being in the universe should be able to KO him.

Originally posted by Accel

Cain tried to break Hulk's neck after jumping him from behind. Not going all out my ass.

Cain was ignoring hulk, Cain was trying to get Hulk to join Him, He was also talking the whole fight, Cain would of known better then to try and snap his neck when he would of just healed from it and instead continued to pummel a dazed Hulk.

Originally posted by Jonathanos
I don't see Juggernaut being willing to fight the Hulk for an eternity.
And the only victory Juggernaut has over the Hulk was when Hulk was sloppy and holding back because he didn't know who he was fighting. Hardly worth considering.

And I don't see Hulk willing to fight for eternity either, most of the time Hulks wants to be left alone and play hop scotch around the planet. But on this forum its whatever it takes, so both will be fighting for as long as it needs. Although I really don't believe Hulk can truly fight for Eternity, in all its meaning. Just think about how much Power Hulk will be exerting, not to mention Juggernauts Uber Class punches hitting him.

Originally posted by Jonathanos
You made all of that up, didn't you? 🙂

What the math logic, yeah I did, but the logic of what it really means makes sense of you just read.

Oh, and who bumped this mess anyway.

Accel Senior Member

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Umm, no, I don't get it, saying something is possible but not likely, then saying its going to be a stalemate because its shouldn't happen is technically impossible.
For instance, If i were to say The chances of earth being hit by an asteroid is "possible but not likely", then right after that I say that "so it should never happen", sounds stupid as hell right?
The chances of Earth being hit by an asteroid are very little, but the thing is we have scientist constantly looking for that doomsday asteroid because [b]its not likely, but still possible
Heck, some new species of Plant or animal is discovered every now and then, its not likely, but still possible
All I'm trying to say is, if you don't think Jugges cant knock Hulk out, just say it is impossible, thats it, just impossible. don't give me this "well its possible but not likely" Crap, because it will never make any sense due to the fact that "possible but not likely" is still in juggernauts favor anyway you look at it. [/B]

I’m saying it’s possible, but it’s most likely not going to happen. If someone says that it’s possible, but not likely for an asteroid to hit Earth… and an asteroid never hits Earth, it means that he was basically right. It’s not really a good idea to keep believing “it can happen, thus, it will happen.” You also need to analyze how likely it is that it will happen.
The chance of an asteroid hitting Earth was always there, but it never happened. Ya see? Same thing here. Hulk can be knocked out, which is why I only said 8/10 for a draw (meaning 2/10 chances that Juggernaut successfully knocks him out), but chances are much greater that he will be able to take Juggernaut’s punches without faltering then there are of him taking those punches and going down.

I don’t think you realize how faulty your logic that “Hulk can knocked out, thus he will be knocked out,” is. 😕

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Can I ask you a question, ever consider the fact that Hulk taking blows from Drax was a low showing for Drax? I mean everybody on this forum pretty much agrees Champion with the power gem and non-jobbing is pretty freaking powerful and not many can stand up too him.

Depends on how you view it. If Hulk has shown high level of durability consistently, then is it really PIS for him to take punches from really strong top-tiers?

I don’t think so. This isn’t Thing or Colossus we’re talking about here. Savage Hulk, and even occasionally Prof. Hulk, has always been shown to have high durability, which is how he can take Juggernaut’s punches without going down.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Technically, while in possession of the power gem one has Infinite strength, not limitless but infinite, an entirely new concept.

The PG offers the same sort of limitless strength that any other character can possess. You REALLY need to realize that there’s no such thing punches with “limitless strength” behind them. Each punch can be stronger than the last, but no single punch can contain “limitless strength”.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Technically if hulk could stand up to something like that, Everything below that should be considered PIS because now Hulk is like Juggernaut Physically unable to be KO'ed. Thus the Hulk vs Heavy hitters Thread. 😉, no physical being in the universe should be able to KO him.

If you honestly believe that, you are SEVERELY overestimating both Drax and Juggernaut. 😕

One doesn’t have to “physically unbeatable” to be able to take their punches, just at a certain level of durability- and Savage Hulk is apparently at that level as he has shown he CAN take punches from both Classic Juggernaut and Drax.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Cain was ignoring hulk, Cain was trying to get Hulk to join Him, He was also talking the whole fight,

Cain jumped on Hulk from behind and then proceeded to try to break his neck. No ignoring Hulk there, just trying to kill him. No holding back there, obviously.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Cain would of known better then to try and snap his neck when he would of just healed from it and instead continued to pummel a dazed Hulk.

Perhaps. Or perhaps Hulk would have pushed him off while he was pummeling him. We’ll never know now, will we?

BTW Hulk obviously wasn’t as dazed as you believe he was, since he could recover from having his neck pulled by Marko.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
And I don't see Hulk willing to fight for eternity either, most of the time Hulks wants to be left alone and play hop scotch around the planet. But on this forum its whatever it takes, so both will be fighting for as long as it needs. Although I really don't believe Hulk can truly fight for Eternity, in all its meaning. Just think about how much Power Hulk will be exerting, not to mention Juggernauts Uber Class punches hitting him.

Hulk can fight for as long as he’s angry. His body can overcome feelings of fatigue through rage and determination and he can overcome feelings of hunger by either adapting to it ot eating his own parts and having them grow back or eating rocks on the ground. It’s all good.

Jonathanos Senior Member

Originally posted by Apolloknight
And I don't see Hulk willing to fight for eternity either, most of the time Hulks wants to be left alone and play hop scotch around the planet. But on this forum its whatever it takes, so both will be fighting for as long as it needs. Although I really don't believe Hulk can truly fight for Eternity, in all its meaning. Just think about how much Power Hulk will be exerting, not to mention Juggernauts Uber Class punches hitting him.

I see the fight going until either something interrupts them or one of them decides to call it a day and effectively throws in the towel.

[B]What the math logic, yeah I did, but the logic of what it really means makes sense of you just read.

I'm referring to the whole bit about Hulk's durability going up slower than his strength.

The numbers I knew were made up.

Jonathanos Senior Member

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Can I use that excuse in the Juggernaut/Colossus bar fight?

Of course you can use it to explain why Colossus did so poorly. Not that it matters that much because if we look at their history together, it's obvious who would win the fight under normal conditions.

Hulk and Juggernaut actually fought to a standstill and neither was able to put the other down. That's the fight that should be looked at, not a fight where one or the other was in some way handicapped.

snoopdogg Big Pimpin

Originally posted by Jonathanos
Of course you can use it to explain why Colossus did so poorly. Not that it matters that much because if we look at their history together, it's obvious who would win the fight under normal conditions.

I am not saying Colossus would have won but he would have done even better than his drunk @ss did.

Originally posted by Jonathanos

Hulk and Juggernaut actually fought to a standstill and neither was able to put the other down. That's the fight that should be looked at, not a fight where one or the other was in some way handicapped.

I kinda agree but Hulk was professor Hulk and should have known to take off the kid gloves after "the guy" kept coming back. I mean how many normal guys can hold Hulk under the water by his throat against his will?

Accel Senior Member

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I kinda agree but Hulk was professor Hulk and should have known to take off the kid gloves after "the guy" kept coming back. I mean how many normal guys can hold Hulk under the water by his throat against his will?

Exactly. That's the definition of CIS. If an "ordinary" construction worker can hold his own against you, he's obviously not ordinary. The idiot.

Apolloknight Your rule is at an end

Originally posted by Accel
I’m saying it’s possible, but it’s [B]most likely not going to happen.
[/B]

If you saying its possible but most likely wont happen, then it can still happen. I think what you wont to say is Impossible, not possible but most likely wont happen, because if something is still possible, it CAN still happen, thus not ruling it out of the question, therefore giving Juggernaut the slight advantage, even if you don't want to see it.

Originally posted by Accel
If someone says that it’s possible, but not likely for an asteroid to hit Earth… and an asteroid never hits Earth, it means that he was basically right. It’s not really a good idea to keep believing “it can happen, thus, it will happen.” You also need to analyze how [B]likely it is that it will happen.
The chance of an asteroid hitting Earth was always there, but it never happened. Ya see? [/B]

Umm, several asteroids have hit the earths in its few billion years of life

http://www.solarviews.com/eng/tercrate.htm

Yes is not likely that one will hit the earth, but its still not out of the question. 😉

Originally posted by Accel

Perhaps. Or perhaps Hulk would have pushed him off while he was pummeling him. We’ll never know now, will we?
BTW Hulk obviously wasn’t as dazed as you believe he was, since he could recover from having his neck pulled by Marko.

So tell me, if he wasn't dazed, what was he, because even you said he recovered from something, so what did he recover from?

Originally posted by Accel

If you honestly believe that, you are SEVERELY overestimating both Drax and Juggernaut. 😕
One doesn’t have to “physically unbeatable” to be able to take their punches, just at a certain level of durability- and Savage Hulk is apparently at that level as he has shown he CAN take punches from both Classic Juggernaut and Drax.
.

And you still don't get it, I agree Hulks Durability increases with his strength, not as fast, but it does increase, Enraged Hulk has been Ko'ed before.

Therefore, No matter how Durable Hulk becomes Juggernaut can increase his strength to surpass it, Hulk cant get angry if he gets knocked around, Hulk usually gets mad After he is gets knocked around and his foe (through PIS) talks smack to Hulk, or trys to put him in some hold and allows him to get angry.

Its very simple, don't allow hulk to get angry and he goes down. Juggernauts aint gonna be talking, He aint gonna putting Hulk in any Holds, he is just going to pummel him tell he goes to sleep.

Accel Senior Member

Originally posted by Apolloknight
If you saying its possible but most likely wont happen, then it can still happen. I think what you wont to say is [b]Impossible, not possible but most likely wont happen, because if something is still possible, it CAN still happen, thus not ruling it out of the question, therefore giving Juggernaut the slight advantage, even if you don't want to see it. [/B]

I have been saying that first sentence there this whole. friggin. time.

8/10, it’s a stalemate (unless pinning for a win counts). The 2/10 is Cain’s slight edge, but it’s a very slight edge.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Umm, several asteroids have hit the earths in its few billion years of life
http://www.solarviews.com/eng/tercrate.htm
Yes is not likely that one will hit the earth, but its still not out of the question. 😉

You completely missed the point of my post. I was speaking hypothetically, meaning IF that situation occurs.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
So tell me, if he wasn't dazed, what was he, because even you said he recovered from something, so what did he recover from?

From being knocked down from behind and getting the guy who’s trying to break his neck, what else? 🤨

There was nothing to indicate he was dazed.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
And you still don't get it, I agree Hulks Durability increases with his strength, not as fast, but it does increase,

You base this off of nothing.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Enraged Hulk has been Ko'ed before.

Savage has been KOed only a few times. That’s about as many times as Juggernaut’s been hurt. The fact is, he’s shown he can take Juggernaut’s assaults in their first fight.

So there’s absolutely no reason to believe he can’t take it again now.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Therefore, No matter how Durable Hulk becomes Juggernaut can increase his strength to surpass it, Hulk cant get angry if he gets knocked around, Hulk usually gets mad [b]After he is gets knocked around and his foe (through PIS) talks smack to Hulk, or trys to put him in some hold and allows him to get angry.[/B]

Of course he’s going to get angry if someone’s hitting him. Do you think it takes a barrage of insults or something? Add in the fact that he’s bloodlusted (like Cain is of course) and of course his durability will keep increasing.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Its very simple, don't allow hulk to get angry and he goes down. Juggernauts aint gonna be talking, He aint gonna putting Hulk in any Holds, he is just going to pummel him tell he goes to sleep.

There’s two problems with this:
1. Hulk will be fighting back and pushing him off. He’s not going to be just standing around while someone hits him over and over again.
2. He’s shown he’s tough enough to take Juggernaut’s punishment in their first fight. You don’t have to like it, but it’s there.

Apolloknight Your rule is at an end

Originally posted by Accel
I have been saying that first sentence there this whole. friggin. time.
8/10, it’s a stalemate (unless pinning for a win counts). The 2/10 is Cain’s slight edge, but it’s a very slight edge.

Ok, I can walk away with 2 wins.........

for now 🥷

Accel Senior Member

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Ok, I can walk away with 2 wins.........
for now 🥷

Keep in mind, I'm basically sayin that Juggernaut probably has a 20% chance of winning. The other 80% is that they will stalemate (unless pinning counts). 😉

Horrificus Senior Member

I think that the fact of Hulk getting crazier and more enraged as he gets stronger with his anger, should be a factor against him against Juggernaut.
If Juggs is keeping with him strength-wise, and is still not being hurt by Hulks increasing strength, he should eventually be able to KO or kill Hulk.

There is a limit to anger. He can only get so angry, therefore, he can only get so strong.
But, there is no limit to a universe filled with Cyttorak power, funneling into Cain.

badabing Gym rat

One of them BFRs the other.

They stalemate until Hulk gets strong enough to physically hurt Juggernaut.

They stalemate until Hulk succumbs to thirst/hunger/fatigue.

Accel Senior Member

Originally posted by Horrificus
I think that the fact of Hulk getting crazier and more enraged as he gets stronger with his anger, should be a factor against him against Juggernaut.
If Juggs is keeping with him strength-wise, and is still not being hurt by Hulks increasing strength, he should eventually be able to KO or kill Hulk.
There is a limit to anger. He can only get so angry, therefore, he can only get so strong.
But, there is no limit to a universe filled with Cyttorak power, funneling into Cain.

Hulk doesn't have a limit to his anger. This has been stated numerous times, even by his creator.

Horrificus Senior Member

Originally posted by Accel
Hulk doesn't have a limit to his anger. This has been stated numerous times, even by his creator.

I have never seen it stated that there is no limit to his anger.
I have seen it said that there is theoretically,no limit to his strength, because that is just a result of his anger.
Please show me something that says his anger is limitless, because I have no idea what that means.
He is going to get as angry as his childlike intellect will allow. Because, they say Savage Hulk, (whom I am guessing you are referring to), has the mind of a child.
And, I don' think "children" have limitless anger.

bigbran Dead

Thats it! NO more catering to your needs.
Juggernaut 7/10

Namor has handeled Hulk.
Why the hell can't Juggs, even if Hulk is mad?
Give me one good reason, why he couldn't beat Hulk.

Apolloknight Your rule is at an end

Originally posted by Accel
Keep in mind, I'm basically sayin that Juggernaut probably has a 20% chance of winning. The other 80% is that they will stalemate (unless pinning counts). 😉

20% chance is better then the 0% chance that hulk has wouldnt you agree. 😉

Accel Senior Member

Originally posted by Horrificus
I have never seen it stated that there is no limit to his anger.
I have seen it said that there is theoretically,no limit to his strength, because that is just a result of his anger.
Please show me something that says his anger is limitless, because I have no idea what that means.
He is going to get as angry as his childlike intellect will allow. Because, they say Savage Hulk, (whom I am guessing you are referring to), has the mind of a child.
And, I don' think "children" have limitless anger.

It’s been stated numerous times in the comics:

IH: 225- "Unfortunatley the Leader has forgotten a well kown fact: The madder the Hulk gets, the stronger the Hulk gets! And when it comes to anger the Hulk knows no limits!!"

Secret Wars 2, #8- "You are nothing but raging personified! An infinity of power with no finite element inside!!"

IH: 198- :"At first the man brutes massive fists prove ineffectual against the shimmering energy shield--but that does not deter him--for the madder Hulk gets--the stronger Hulk gets-- and as anyone who has ever met the green goliath can tell you--his rage--and his power--are boundless!!"

IH: 322- "Usually his rage makes him infinitley strong--But not this time. he hit a limit..maybe even got a bit weaker!" (Doc Samson referring to a dying Mindless Hulk).

It’s also been stated by Stan Lee and Peter David themselves.

So yeah, Hulk’s anger and strength are unlimited. Does it make sense? No, but then again, neither does the Hulk really.

bigbran Dead

Originally posted by Accel
It’s been stated numerous times in the comics:
IH: 225- "Unfortunatley the Leader has forgotten a well kown fact: The madder the Hulk gets, the stronger the Hulk gets! And when it comes to anger the Hulk knows no limits!!"
Secret Wars 2, #8- "You are nothing but [b]raging personified! An infinity of power with no finite element inside!!"
IH: 198- :"At first the man brutes massive fists prove ineffectual against the shimmering energy shield--but that does not deter him--for the madder Hulk gets--the stronger Hulk gets-- and as anyone who has ever met the green goliath can tell you--his rage--and his power--are boundless!!"
IH: 322- "Usually his rage makes him infinitley strong--But not this time. he hit a limit..maybe even got a bit weaker!" (Doc Samson referring to a dying Mindless Hulk).
It’s also been stated by Stan Lee and Peter David themselves.
So yeah, Hulk’s anger and strength are unlimited. Does it make sense? No, but then again, neither does the Hulk really. [/B]

So hes supposed to be the strongest there is.
Where does it say, that he is the most durible.
Again I don't believe it, but I'll play along.

Accel Senior Member

Originally posted by Apolloknight
20% chance is better then the 0% chance that hulk has wouldnt you agree. 😉

Stalemating is good enough. There is still the option of pinning down one's opponent for a win, which if we count, greatly increases Hulk's chances of winning. 😉

Accel Senior Member

Originally posted by bigbran
So hes supposed to be the strongest there is.
Where does it say, that he is the most durible.
Again I don't believe it, but I'll play along.

I never said he was the most durable. 🤨