since the other thread got closed then it would be better to post my reply here...
to soljer and sym chaos:
i didnt say nor implied that WH can BFR, but that BFR is a means of winning without resorting to physical means, since you said that WH didnt beat Juggs because he nary had a "scratch" on him or he wasnt hurt...
in the scene where WH was standing above Juggs with his sword pointed at his neck, body language would dictate that Juggs "YIELDED" to WH, it's called "SUBMISSION", which definitely counts as a win...
He somewhat underestimated the celestial tech. They both underestimated their opponents strength.
When War would have tried to cut Cains head off, he probably wouldn't have, even so, Cain is immortal, the fight would have continued. I like both of those characters, and War was cool and all, but that fight was unfinished and wasn't really a fight at all. One of the few opportunites that they missed on to have a good Juggernaut vs Hulk fight.
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
He somewhat underestimated the celestial tech. They both underestimated their opponents strength.When War would have tried to cut Cains head off, he probably wouldn't have, even so, Cain is immortal, the fight would have continued. I like both of those characters, and War was cool and all, but that fight was unfinished and wasn't really a fight at all. One of the few opportunites that they missed on to have a good Juggernaut vs Hulk fight.
Even IF he was able to cut Jug's head off, Jug wouldn't die. He'd still be able to fight without a head or he could simply let his head heal back on.
There's no way War Hulk or any Hulk would beat Jug.
Originally posted by JyppePossibly although they don't make mmention of him being offically depowered till after that. Although I guess his mentioning of it later could be considered a retcon to the fact that cain had been loosing power for a long time.
Didn't marvel start to depower and weaken Juggernaut instantly after the 8th day story arc? As Juggernaut didn't succumb to the will of Cyttorak and become his vessel? War Hulk stuff happened during the twelve arc, so it was quite a bit after the 8th day story arc.
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
He somewhat underestimated the celestial tech. They both underestimated their opponents strength.When War would have tried to cut Cains head off, he probably wouldn't have, even so, Cain is immortal, the fight would have continued. I like both of those characters, and War was cool and all, but that fight was unfinished and wasn't really a fight at all. One of the few opportunites that they missed on to have a good Juggernaut vs Hulk fight.
Originally posted by long pig
Exactly.Even IF he was able to cut Jug's head off, Jug wouldn't die. He'd still be able to fight without a head or he could simply let his head heal back on.
There's no way War Hulk or any Hulk would beat Jug.
Exactly. On both counts. 👆
Originally posted by Accel
He wasn’t being killed until he was knocked out. Up to that point, in his mind, he was just dealing with some one who was stronger than he anticipated. Hulk can keep Cain from killing him if he didn’t underestimate him like that. If you want an example, look back at their first fight, where Juggernaut couldn’t kill take Hulk out, even when he attacked from behind.Whack logic? And your logic that Spider-Man can beat Hulk isn’t?
And Hulk also dominates his opponents. You’re presented with a double standard here. You don’t believe Hulk starts any where near Thor’s strength due of lack of feats, even though Hulk has stalemated Thor before. At the same time, you believe Juggernaut is stronger than Thor despite lack of feats and only based on how he does against Thor. That’s hypocrisy right there.
You think Grey Hulk can be as strong as Savage Hulk right away? No. Of course not, so it doesn’t matter.
Original classic Abomination was easily stronger than classic Juggernaut, I’ve never seen Juggernaut take out Hulk in three punches, even against the tricked Prof. Hulk.
No excuses at all. Just facts. I’d like to see Cain himself (not Spider, not Iron Man, not Samson), take out a Hulk who isn’t underestimating his opponent.
He could only end it when his invulnerability came back and saved his ass.
What difference does it make? Jobbing is jobbing, no mater how you slice it. That’s why it’s always ignored.
Stalemate.
There's no need to look at their first fight when this fight is a perfect example of how Cain has overpowered Hulk. Hulk was being killed yet felt the need to hold back? Hulk was being drowned, yet feal the need to hold back? Hulk was getting his head kicked in, yet felt the need to hold back? it makes no since. That excuse may have been good if Cain punched him a single time, but Cain was literally decimating Hulk. I don't know of many people who'd would chose death over having their heads caved in.
I only used Spider-man as an example to show that Hulk can and has been ko'd. Something that you've denied through the duration of this thread.
So I guess Hulk was dominating Spider-man when he was ko'd? Oh yea, he was also dominating Thor when he was killed?
Both's strength is supposedly unlimited, so after a couple moments of the fight their should be no major difference in their strength ranges.
Classic Juggernaut >>>>>>>>>>>> Classic Abom
Cain already has, and no one's buying that Hulk was holding back.
It was actually before he regained his durability that the narration stated he could have landed the final blow.
The difference is you've claimed Hulk can't be ko'd although he clearly has. I've never once stated that Cain couldn't be defeated, it just won't be by the Hulk.
Cain wins
Originally posted by Soujaboy
There's no need to look at their first fight when this fight is a perfect example of how Cain has overpowered Hulk. Hulk was being killed yet felt the need to hold back? Hulk was being drowned, yet feal the need to hold back? Hulk was getting his head kicked in, yet felt the need to hold back? it makes no since. That excuse may have been good if Cain punched him a single time, but Cain was literally decimating Hulk. I don't know of many people who'd would chose death over having their heads caved in.I only used Spider-man as an example to show that Hulk can and has been ko'd. Something that you've denied through the duration of this thread.
So I guess Hulk was dominating Spider-man when he was ko'd? Oh yea, he was also dominating Thor when he was killed?
Both's strength is supposedly unlimited, so after a couple moments of the fight their should be no major difference in their strength ranges.
Classic Juggernaut >>>>>>>>>>>> Classic Abom
Cain already has, and no one's buying that Hulk was holding back.
It was actually before he regained his durability that the narration stated he could have landed the final blow.
The difference is you've claimed Hulk can't be ko'd although he clearly has. I've never once stated that Cain couldn't be defeated, it just won't be by the Hulk.
Cain wins
I never denied he’s been KOed, just that he’s taken blows from folks as strong or stronger than Cain. The Spider-Man incident doesn’t show the average of Hulk’s showings and you know this.
He was dominating Spider-Man in every other fight they’ve had. Pretty much the same with Thor in almost every other fight they’ve had. For some reason, ou ignore all those and only look at what suits you best. I also like how you avoided my question concerning your views on Thor's fights with Hulk and how they compare to his fights with Juggernaut.
In durability? Sure. In strength? Not really. Classic Abom managed to KO Hulk with 3 solid blows WITHOUT tricking him. Cain can’t say that at all.
Considering Cain himself said that Hulk fell for his ploy, it would be wise to buy that Hulk wasn’t going all out. That was the reason he attacked him in street clothes in the first place.
I never stated that at all. Only that he can take whatever Cain can dish out because he’s taken worse before (which he has). Why do you keep putting words in my mouth?
Hulk was indeed tricked into thinking Cain was a normal guy. No matter how stupid it sounds, it's how he was written. It's hard to say for sure if he was going all out. But, it's easy to say Jug wasn't going all out as well.
He wasn't.
Fact is, he's never gone all out in a Hulk fight. Hell, I only know of one time he's went out on ANYONE.
Doesn't matter, though. Everyone and their mother knows Prof Hulk would lose 10/10 to Jug.
sorry people but lets face it.
hulk has been said to be not a being but pure raw power and energy that knows no infinte.
you put that together with a crazy healing factor, and infinite rage.
you basically get a juggy beatdown. not taking anything away from jugster though. but i really do think hulk is taking this
He's not a being of energy. He's a guy who's strong with the potential for infinite strength.
He COULD have infinite strength if he had infinite anger, which he doesn't because infinite anger doesn't exist.
Being "a being with the potential for limitless strength" only means that his body can hold limitless amounts of energy/strength, not that he actually HAS limitless strength.
He doesn't.
This fight is a stalemate.