Juggernaut or The Hulk?

Originally posted by Odekahn
Harder to cut? Sure. But Logan still cut him didn't he?

Are you playing dumb or trolling? He was harder to cut because he was that much stronger at that point while holding back. now there were guys that hit as hard as Cain that were unable to harm the Hulk, and he appeared to still be holding back as he stood there taking these hits and ignoring them like he was being pelted by rain drops. Cain wold not be able to hurt the Hulk at that level. It's clear to me that you will not acknowledge these points, and will incessantly attempt to ignore and lower the feat. Cain would be rendered impotent.

Originally posted by Odekahn
Cain looks capable of hurting Hulk here...

Savage Hulk > Juggernaut.
Green Scar >>>> Savage Hulk.

And given that this thread is just "The Hulk" vs Juggernaut. We would even posit instant annihilation of Juggernaut via WBH, since Hulk isn't being handicapped by the KMC rule regarding "WWH".

Originally posted by Odekahn
Cain looks capable of hurting Hulk here...

No one is saying Cain can't hurt Hulk...in that scan, Cain made pain noise as well.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
And Hulk cant harm Juggernaut either so whats your point? All he can do is toss him around?

An inferior Onslaught, a random nobody Captain Universe and War Hulk have all hurt/hospitalised/almost murdered Juggernaut.

This Hulk is more than capable of matching (and exceeding) their feats.

Originally posted by janus77
Congratulations, you lost the argument and now you're just firing cheap shots with context-free scans?

Savage Hulk > Juggernaut.
Green Scar >>>> Savage Hulk.

And given that this thread is just "The Hulk" vs Juggernaut. We would even posit instant annihilation of Juggernaut via WBH, since Hulk isn't being handicapped by the KMC rule regarding "WWH".

Smh. You aren't keeping the scope of the entire discussion in your posts.

The thread I started posting in was merged here, and it was no BFR WWH vs jugs in that fight if they kept going.

What is context free about jugs being able to hurt Hulk?

Originally posted by carver9
No one is saying Cain can't hurt Hulk...in that scan, Cain made pain noise as well.

Yes they are, are you not reading the thread? Lol

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
I get that Hulk has the strength advantage but some of you are claiming that now Hulk is stronger than Cytorrak himself and thats just blatant dumbassery.

Cytorrak rarely if ever gives Cain all of his power, which was even sated on panel when Peter was given the power.

Originally posted by Odekahn
Cain looks capable of hurting Hulk here...

That was the Hulk that was holding back considerably, and he wasn't even there for Cain. You seem to be blatantly ignoring that the Hulk grew stronger than he was in the scan that you're providing here.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
And Hulk cant harm Juggernaut either so whats your point? All he can do is toss him around?

That would be a no limits fallacy. Cain can be hurt, the question is whether the Hulk could hurt him. I believe that he could be, when less power has hurt him in the past.

Also, saying Hulk was holding back during that arc, fine. Then he would have been "holding back" still if that fight were to continue (which is the question I am answering), so whether he was holding back or not is moot.

Originally posted by Odekahn
Yes they are, are you not reading the thread? Lol

I guess they are taking about high end Hulk because WWH, Juggernaut is capable of damaging him.

Originally posted by Odekahn
Smh. You aren't keeping the scope of the entire discussion in your posts.

The thread I started posting in was merged here, and it was no BFR WWH vs jugs in that fight if they kept going.

What is context free about jugs being able to hurt Hulk?

Everything else I said is purely applicable to "WWH".

Context-free is simply you failing to notice that none of that 1) Hurt Hulk in any way that would have any bearing on a fight and 2) That was Juggernaut surprise attacking Hulk.

Thereafter, they got into the fight proper (which you obviously know, but want to ignore because you have been shown to be wrong in your argument) ... Context.

Originally posted by Odekahn
Also, saying Hulk was holding back during that arc, fine. Then he would have been "holding back" still if that fight were to continue (which is the question I am answering), so whether he was holding back or not is moot.

No it isn't moot because he was not there to fight Cain, he was there to collect Charles. We later see how powerful the Hulk becomes and could become, and that power dwarfs what was seen in the scans that you provided. We also see how he ignored guys capable of hitting as hard as Cain. I get it though, you don't want to be wrong here, but you are.

Originally posted by janus77
This thread is now just "The Hulk", rather than "WWH", so I posited a quickie win for Hulk (which is perfectly valid).

Everything else I said is purely applicable to "WWH".

Context-free is simply you failing to notice that none of that 1) Hurt Hulk in any way that would have any bearing on a fight and 2) That was Juggernaut surprise attacking Hulk.

Thereafter, they got into the fight proper (which you obviously know, but want to ignore because you have been shown to be wrong in your argument) ... Context.

Context? The rest of the fight was them talking and playing a game of Mercy until Hulk let go.

I'm continuing the discussion I had, which is the question I was answering about that particular instance. I haven't made any comments regarding savage hulk.

Also, it wasn't a surprise attack. A surprise attack or sucker punch would be if Hulk wasn't aware Jugs was even attacking him.

You are being misleading.

Originally posted by Stoic
Cytorrak rarely if ever gives Cain all of his power, which was even sated on panel when Peter was given the power.

That was the Hulk that was holding back considerably, and he wasn't even there for Cain. You seem to be blatantly ignoring that the Hulk grew stronger than he was in the scan that you're providing here.

That would be a no limits fallacy. Cain can be hurt, the question is whether the Hulk could hurt him. I believe that he could be, when less power has hurt him in the past.

Yeah Juggernaut is just a small portion of Cyttorak. So your saying if Hulk went Worldbreaker he could beat cyttorak or what?

Originally posted by Stoic
No it isn't moot because he was not there to fight Cain, he was there to collect Charles. We later see how powerful the Hulk becomes and could become, and that power dwarfs what was seen in the scans that you provided. We also see how he ignored guys capable of hitting as hard as Cain. I get it though, you don't want to be wrong here, but you are.

Hell if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong lol. Wouldn't hurt my pride any. I just don't think I'm wrong.

He still fought juggernaut, no? Regardless of him being there for him or not. He fought lots of other Xmen while looking for Charles also, including Logan in the scans I linked. Why he was there is a moot point.

What we get from this fight is that Hulk is extremely powerful, but not invincible and he can be hurt.

Originally posted by Odekahn
Context? The rest of the fight was them talking and playing a game of Mercy until Hulk let go.

I'm continuing the discussion I had, which is the question I was answering about that particular instance. I haven't made any comments regarding savage hulk.

Also, it wasn't a surprise attack. A surprise attack or sucker punch would be if Hulk wasn't aware Jugs was even attacking him.

You are being misleading.

Juggernaut attacked Hulk, when Hulk was not looking, you should (I suspect you do) know this. Hulk had shifted focus and was getting on with the job of capturing Xavier.

Hulk stated that he wasn't there for any of the X-Men, he never hit any of them with lethal force or did them any injuries he knew they could not recover from. The entire arc was filled with comments on how Hulk never kills, always holds back, always pulls his punches. And WWH was a demonstration of how true that is.

You don't have an argument, you're wrong and you just need to accept it.

Originally posted by janus77
On what basis? Xavier spells it out for pretty much everyone.

Care to post the scan, please?

Hulk wins.

Originally posted by Odekahn
Hell if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong lol. Wouldn't hurt my pride any. I just don't think I'm wrong.

He still fought juggernaut, no? Regardless of him being there for him or not. He fought lots of other Xmen while looking for Charles also, including Logan in the scans I linked. Why he was there is a moot point.

What we get from this fight is that Hulk is extremely powerful, but not invincible and he can be hurt.

He does not have to be invincible to defeat Cain, because Cain has been proven to not be invincible himself. He (The Hulk) held back because he has never been portrayed as a murderer, but if he was there to kill Cain, or capture him, that is exactly what would have happened, and Cain would not be able to hurt him if The Hulk decided to go all out on Cain.

What you have done, is given them a specific battleground, but in a forum they are on neutral soil with no innocents in the way to be hurt or worse. Cain loses this type of battle, because he would have nowhere to hide. Cain would not have the luxury of the Hulk having to hold back like it went down in the Dark Dimension.

What you need to do to prove that Cain would win, is bring forth proof that he could even hurt this version of the Hulk while others that could hit as hard as him were unable to. Can you do that? If not just let it go if your ego isn't in jeopardy.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Care to post the scan, please?

The first scan I googled. There was more to it, iirc, a scene within the mansion talking about the damage being done.

But in that scene, Xavier says that Juggernaut is basically breaking the foundations of the mansion.

Originally posted by janus77

The first scan I googled. There was more to it, iirc, a scene within the mansion talking about the damage being done.

But in that scene, Xavier says that Juggernaut is basically breaking the foundations of the mansion.

How does that contradict what I said?